Peter wrote:
There is a world of difference between flying home using GA and dealing with any issues on your home turf, and being stuck somewhere far away, positive test, locked up in a govt run solitary confinement hellhole untl you produce a negative test.
Indeed. From that Daily Mail article Peter posted, it looks like (for green countries at least) a self-administered lateral flow test will be sufficient for pre-departure (now confirmed as meaning pre- homeward departure) and the test kit itself you can take with you – so zero cost on that bit for UK residents who can collect FoC 2x lateral flow tests per person per week from any pharmacist.
Of course you know what that’ll lead to: here is my lateral flow test, negative result. Did the swab actually go anywhere near my nose or throat, yes of course…. There is a false positive rate of something like 0.3-0.5% so some folks might take 2 test kits with them.
No way of avoiding at least one paid-for PCR test on return to the UK though, which is an absolute minimum of £50 and more like £120 per person. £400+ on the cost of a holiday for a family of four is very significant in the context of mass travel – i.e. the great majority falling within some X% of median income.
One might then expect that PCR cost to be effectively doubled because the destination country may well require a negative PCR within X days of you travelling outbound.
Graham wrote:
Switzerland, with its unique status in Europe, is in the fortunate position of being able to treat all countries even-handedly based purely on the numbers without risk of political upset.
Switzerland is part of Schengen and gets to play nicely by the rules of the Schengen area ;-)
and this is worth following as a thread https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/timeline-of-eu-member-states-reopening-their-borders/
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
Switzerland is part of Schengen and gets to play nicely by the rules of the Schengen area ;-)
It’s nothing to do with Schengen, it’s to do with the various rules that different countries are and will be enforcing on international travel while managing the Covid-19 risk.
Schengen countries can and will put in whatever restrictions they want, applying to whomever they want them to apply to. No-one can bypass any Covid-19 travel restrictions that exist (or may exist in the future) by shouting “Schengen!” at border control officers.
My home area, Moray, is not doing well at present. I am 20 miles from Elgin.
“Moray Council said 48 positive cases have been associated with Elgin Academy since April 14.
More than a quarter of the school’s population of around 1000 pupils have since been ordered by public health officials to self-isolate.”
That’s really sad to hear.
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
Switzerland is part of Schengen and gets to play nicely by the rules of the Schengen area ;-)
Schengen is basically out of action since about a year when it comes to Covid Entry requirements.
It appears that Switzerland has taken most European countries of the quarantine list, two German sections, several French, two Austrian counties as well as Belgium, Netherlands, Serbia, Andorra and Hungary remain. Several popular destinations have newly been introduced to the quarantine list, amongst them the Maldives and Egypt.
Switzerland also has made it clear once again, that vaccination does not free travellers from either PCR tests nor Quarantine where required, the reason being that vaccination does not protect from infection, only from illness. They appear to be set on keeping this going until all vaccinations are done, the time now talked about is about October. Kids below 12 are exempt from tests but not from Quarantine if returning from a risk country.
vaccination does not protect from infection, only from illness
That’s actually not true. Vaccinated people are (a) much less likely to suffer a given level of illness and (b) pass on (or “generate”) much less virus. Not zero but much less. So from a public health policy POV, vaccination could be used as a perfectly good objective criterion for the level of movement restriction. But this is will result in civil liberties issues (vaccinated v. not vaccinated) which makes it a political hot potato. The extent of the “hotness” depends on whether the country concerned has a long history of being a “police state”, etc 
Everything I see suggests that the govts are waiting for the population to become really desperate to travel, and then they will make the next move. Then somebody else takes the heat, which is what politics is largely about
Peter wrote:
Vaccinated people are (a) much less likely to suffer a given level of illness and (b) pass on (or “generate”) much less virus. Not zero but much less.
In relation to (a) I would have zero issues personally with traveling anywhere in Europe, having now been vaccinated. That’s why you get vaccinated 
Combining (a) and (b) if you are vaccinated the chance of another vaccinated person making you significantly ill is very, very slight. Which is why once Continental Europe catches up on vaccinations and anybody who wants it can get it, the documentation issue is going to be largely OBE just as it is becoming now in the US. The only issue is the confusion, obfuscation and long delay in achieving results that comes with overactive and concurrently ineffective government.
Peter wrote:
Vaccinated people are (a) much less likely to suffer a given level of illness and (b) pass on (or “generate”) much less virus. Not zero but much less.
Point B is what is disputed and is why they are not willing to lift restrictions until all who will get vaccinated are in fact vaccinated. Some say there is only a small risk, others say the risk is almost similar than without vaccination because vaccinated people will sooner or later drop the precautions such as personal hygiene and masks, therefore endangering those who are not vaccinated. And given the tradition of protection of minorities, those 30% who will not vaccine may well have the rest of us live with restrictions for years to come.
Peter wrote:
The extent of the “hotness” depends on whether the country concerned has a long history of being a “police state”
Which of course is also directly dependent on the level of protection a population asks of their government. Some countries do have a large police presence and policing as a way of life because the population gets a kick out of restricting others, hence the likelyhood of shouting for the police or government to put their neighbours in their place is much higher than elsewhere.
Even though with Corona this had their justification to some extent, right now I thing the way restrictions are being lifted or not have more to do with the fact that many governments and politicians have been (often rightly) accused of having overslept the first signs, when a stopping of the pandemic without the economic and human rights disaster we have faced since was still possible. They do not want to be seen letting their guard down too early now, in other words they will not relent until their arses are truely and safely covered.
The other elephant in the room is obviously what is going on in India. This horriffic disaster has so far outdone everything which has happened elsewhere including China. And it is a big mistake to think that it is “far away” and of no concern, as it may cause a huge spread in the area and from there to elsewhere. Already this one has lead to many countries also banning the Maldives and Sri Lanka, Nepal and other neighbouring countries. Asia has to be on their watch out and so do we.
I suppose the only thing we can do is wait and see until more results of studies with vaccinated people tell us one way or the other. Only then will it become clear what can be relaxed and what not.
Ideally, some of the hygiene standards as well as masks for anyone who feels unwell should stay in place for good, as a law or as a habit depends on the discipline of the people. If it could become like Japan and some others in that region, where wearing masks when you feel off is as normal as having breakfast, we may well be in a good position to do a lot better with also more pedestrian diseases in the future. Similarily, people should be free to wear protective masks when they feel like it without being ridiculed or even attacked by others.
