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Corona / Covid-19 Virus - General Discussion

ormazad wrote:

I’d start asking the legality of speed limits for people with no incidents record.
55mph in the emptiness of your highway is government authoritarianism.

And that would be very good question. Its a similar issue in that Federal law was enacted to conserve oil that was about to run out (in 1974), ‘demanding’ unprecedented action by central government to delay the apocalypse… So yes, you can discuss that now in US Constitutional terms, states rights etc, it certainly was in the past, but I’m happy to be able to say that the 55 mph National Maximum Speed Law was eliminated many years ago after a similar battle.

The tool used by man to fight nature including viruses on its own terms is called technology. Technology is provided by money, assuming you pay the smart people who develop it, most of which in this instance will come from drug companies (which source their R&D budgets from the US consumer) and/or US Federal government grants.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 21 May 14:38

https://www.diariodemallorca.es/nacional/2020/05/21/grupo-investigadores-detecta-espana-cepa/1510712.html

As there are so many smart people on this forum, Spanish will not be a problem. And of course Google translate is very good nowadays

The important take-aways are that Spanish investigators found that:

1. The ‘natural evolution’ of the virus is inconsistent with it being created in a lab and clearly points to animal origin. So maybe we can leave some conspiracy theories behind us and also inform the top guy in Washington DC that now’s the time to come up with his ‘almost certain proof’ or shut up forever. But he could of course claim that these Spanish investigators are part of yet another conspiracy..

2. The ‘superspreaders’ account for 30-50% of all cases.

3. The origin seems not before Nov 2019 and there must have been many more cases in Asia than reported.

Private field, Mallorca, Spain

aart wrote:

1. The ‘natural evolution’ of the virus is inconsistent with it being created in a lab and clearly points to animal origin. So maybe we can leave some conspiracy theories behind us and also inform the top guy in Washington DC that now’s the time to come up with his ‘almost certain proof’ or shut up forever. But he could of course claim that these Spanish investigators are part of yet another conspiracy..

Isn’t the suggestion that it it was an accidental leak from a lab, not necessarily created in a lab? I believe this has happened before in China.

Off_Field wrote:

Isn’t the suggestion that it it was an accidental leak from a lab, not necessarily created in a lab? I believe this has happened before in China.

Correct. The main problem with China, or more precisely with the Chinese Communist Party, however is that they tried to keep a lid on the outbreak. If they had been forthcoming form day one, we would prob90 not be in this mess. They also tried to suppress info coming out of Taiwan via the WHO.

172driver wrote:

Correct. The main problem with China, or more precisely with the Chinese Communist Party, however is that they tried to keep a lid on the outbreak. If they had been forthcoming form day one, we would prob90 not be in this mess. They also tried to suppress info coming out of Taiwan via the WHO.

Exactly so. For me, if this is the eventual outcome of suppressing their involvemnt, it is incredible the rest of the world would be prepared to ignore the extent to which the Chinese Comminist Party has been complicit in the spread of the virus. There are those that say it would have happened anyway, but whether that is true, or not, it isnt the point, the point is that others had the opportunity to address the problem as they felt fit – that is all that should be asked of any nation that finds itself in the this situation. For that, China cannot be forgiven.

I think that’s exactly right. It doesn’t actually matter where this thing came from. Whether it was lab created or not doesn’t matter; probably wasn’t. The lab was probably doing what every lab with that brief is doing. I am sure Porton Down is doing all kinds of virus work, developing vaccines etc. That’s their job, for taxpayer value.

The problem here is that they might have leaked it and then covered up while it started to spread.

However, human greed is found everywhere, all the way from the chinese keeping a lid on it, all the way to the ski resorts trying to get an extra few weeks of revenue before their hands are forced. And their customers desperately (understandably, given the cost of this hobby) trying to go despite the dangers written on the wall.

Today I spoke to a businessman colleague. A few hundred employees. One skier infected their whole head office, with a mystery virus, in January. The right symptoms. He knows one guy who ended up on a ventilator in December and only just survived. Of course it is all anecdotal; nobody was tested. One day they will know for sure. But it might have been just another nasty flu. 50k die of a flu in the UK every year – that’s a huge number and there will be a strong confirmation bias in any reports nowadays.

Today’s news is that the excess mortality in the UK is now down to the normal “bad winter flu” level, of 100-200 deaths per day.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Isn’t the suggestion that it it was an accidental leak from a lab, not necessarily created in a lab? I believe this has happened before in China.

I not sure that would make any sense without manipulation.

For it to get into the lab to be studied, but not manipulated, then it would have to have appeared in the wild first and then be brought into the lab to be studied. In other words it was a natural virus which the Chinese brought into the lab without altering, to study, and then leaked it by accident.

If that was the case, then why didn’t it spread in the wild while the Chinese were studying it in the lab? It’s not like they could have found and captured the only copy in the wild

No leak would have been needed as it was already in the wild.

EIWT Weston

Is that not like the horticultural discussion of GM vs selective breeding?

Presumably in the wild they didn’t have people getting pee’d on or blood on them from the animals, then going to a wet market out of the office.

It was CCP policy not to do anything because they didn’t want to interupt or cause disharmony for their upcoming big communist pow wow, which ironically they later had to cancel.

Taiwan seems to have been on the forefront of trying to get the information out and dealing with the issue themselves even with the WHO denying what they were saying. Yet I don’t seem to read much about how Taiwan has done remarkably well considering their situation.

dublinpilot wrote:

No leak would have been needed as it was already in the wild.

It might have been in the wild, but perhaps no-one had eaten the right sort of bat yet so it wasn’t in humans.

EGLM & EGTN

The Chinese wet markets are maybe one of the largest health risks all over the world, seeing what they do there and how conditions are. I have talked to some people who have actually seen them and they told me they kept away from them alone from the ferocious stench. Keeping live animals in such conditions to sell them to be eaten is something any food and drug administration not to talk of animal right advocates would have stamped out in absolutely NO time in any civilized nation and bloodly rightly so. Apart, bats are a protected species in most parts of the world, they certainly are here, nobody would dream of eating them. But it gets worse.

As far as I recall the going theory was that this virus did not make the jump from bat to human directly but via another favorite breakfast dish involving highly protected pangolins. The latter are extremely illegal to sell and eat.

the Chinese really need to be stopped doing all this or face international isolation. Apart, you really don’t need a research laboratory gone wrong if you have these disgusting markets going on. I suppose any of the conspiracy lunatics who wish to point this to a lab might have one sniff and a glance into a wet market to cure them of their fantasies.

LSZH, Switzerland
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