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Corona / Covid-19 Virus - General Discussion

skydriller wrote:

This is actually a pretty scary idea if you think about it for more than a few moments, as you could end up with a two-tier society.

That idea is far from new. It has been practised for a long time in connection with other diseases.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

@Beechbaby, why don’t you simply link to the Wikipedia articles rather than showing photos of screen displaying those articles?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

It’s almost unreadable.

This is public domain. This is how vaccines are made. You can read about this all over the net e.g. here and here. The fetal tissue goes back to the 1960s and is widely used.

it bothered the Doctors who sent me the clip.

It could not have been a doctor who distributed those images, because any real doctor will know this.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

This is actually a pretty scary idea if you think about it for more than a few moments, as you could end up with a two-tier society. I do however think that it is perhaps the way certain countries may go. Im not particularly happy about this to be honest despite not being averse to taking a vaccine myself.

Isn’t this already policy in many countries with yellow fever? (Or at least was). You have to have proof that you’ve been vaccinated against yellow fever before you can enter some counties.

The Astragenica vaccine is a traditional vaccine. It doesn’t interact with your DNA at all. The DNA that is altered is a virus DNA to make the vaccine…not the human’s. All the altering is done by the time the product is shipped.

The Pfizer vaccine and the Moderna vaccines are RNA vaccines, but even those don’t change your DNA. Instead they work off RNA and the changes are in cells that will die off. All you are left with isthe knowledge acquired by your immune system which learnt naturally how to fight the virus (it learnt the same way as it always does by coming into contract with a foreign object and figuring out how to get rid of it).

Last Edited by dublinpilot at 21 Nov 20:11
EIKH Kilrush

dublinpilot wrote:

Isn’t this already policy in many countries with yellow fever? (Or at least was). You have to have proof that you’ve been vaccinated against yellow fever before you can enter some counties.

Yeah… but most of those countries you dont really want to be visiting for fun anyway…and certainly not without having the vaccine..
(Ive been to several of them for work, Ive had the Yellow Fever Vaccine)

I was thinking for European/North American travel… Or even for free movement within a country.

While “it changes my DNA” is complete BS, the new RNA vaccines enter human cells and use them to produce a characteristic antigen, and people worry about this.

But ultimately, all “live” vaccines (Measles, Smallpox, many Influenza vaccines…) do exactly that – they are weakened viruses which enter cells, hijack them to produce more virus and kill the cell in the process.

The mRNA vaccines do the same – the use some mechanism to enter the cell and use the cell to produce the relevant antigen, which lack the mechanism to infect further cells.

The main difference is that the original virus produces copies of itself including the mechanism to penetrate the cells, while mRNA vaccines produce only the antigen.

While certainly new and not without risk, the mechanism is as old as viruses.

Last Edited by Cobalt at 21 Nov 21:54
Biggin Hill

skydriller wrote:

Yeah… but most of those countries you dont really want to be visiting for fun anyway…and certainly not without having the vaccine..
(Ive been to several of them for work, Ive had the Yellow Fever Vaccine)

Me too.
… and I agree about the countries :-)

Booker EGTB, White Waltham EGLM

aart wrote:

Compared to flying, which is both a short term and a long term risk, it’s a no-brainer

Then you have no brain That statistics is utterly flawed. 1000 hours of base jumping will give you > 99% probability of dying. How are you practically going to do 1000 h of base jumping? One jump lasts what? 30 seconds perhaps, or shorter. For 1000 h of base jumping, you have to do 120000 jumps. The man with most base jumps has 4520 jumps in his career, which amount to roughly 38 hours. But, I’m sure his jumps lasted much shorter than 30 seconds, because his goal is to do as many of them as possible.

Miles Daisher should statistically be dead, but this is statistics. He obviously also must be very good at it, much better than the average jumper doing 4-5 base jumps per year. GA is one death in 64000 hours. Are there anyone with this amount of hours? perhaps? I know (or knew, he is dead, by age) one with at least half of that, all GA. I would say the probability that one, or several, with that amount of hours, is real.

In essence this means for an “average” person (statistically speaking), it doesn’t really matter what activity you do. In the course of a life time, it’s simply a matter of random what you eventually will kill you. The only thing we do now for sure is that age, with corresponding fragility of body and mind causing illnesses to hold on easier, is the number one cause of death.

A vaccine on the other hand, is not something you can’t undo. Once you have set it, any eventual ill side effects will be with you for the rest of your life, 24/7. Let’s say the risk it is as low as commercial aviation, or a fraction of it. 1 % of the population is so called “frequent flyers”. They fly more than 50% of all flying. This means they take 1 short haul flight per month on average. Let’s say a “short haul” flight is 1 hour. The actual time used on an airline is therefore roughly 0.15 % of their living time. For a vaccine to be less dangerous than flying an airline for a “frequent flyer”, the vaccine has to be 700 times less dangerous. This is the effect of time of exposure.

To put this into perspective is means one death every 700k years. This is a ridiculously low risk, but it is the same risk (over time) that the 1% (frequent flyer) has when flying. My gut feeling say that one death every 700k year for a covid vaccine is orders of magnitude less than the real risk. Just bicycling to the clinic to take the vaccine, and your risk (of dying) has skyrocketed. But, the real issue is the 90% effectiveness of the vaccine. This will let your guard down, and if you are one of the unlucky 10%, your chance of getting infected, if you meet someone with covid, has skyrocketed. This is also a 24/7 thing.

The vaccine does a poor job at protecting you personally. If it’s personal protection you are seeking, then you should take several different vaccines, the nano-stuff + Sputnik for instance + another one This comes with all the corresponding dangerous side effects of each vaccine. IMO, the real effect of the vaccine is to get the pandemic under control, but 90% is way too little to kill it.

Last Edited by LeSving at 22 Nov 12:58
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Once you have set it, any eventual ill side effects will be with you for the rest of your life, 24/7.

You can make that same argument for all the activities above, as well. For example I once read that hang gliding and playing rugby (which isn’t on the list, but to make the point) had a similar mortality per participant per year, but you were more likely to suffer a significant injury playing rugby. Wales is full of people with a history of half a dozen fractures and a chronic limp. Horse riding (which is on the list) also maims many more people than it kills.

Personally I think the biggest long-term risk of the vaccine would be that it might trigger some kind of autoimmune reaction. But then a COVID infection is also likely to stimulate the immune system to similar antigens to those in the vaccines and, without a vaccine, we’re all going to get COVID sooner or later so my view is that I will take the risk, which personally I judge as likely to be small.

Last Edited by kwlf at 22 Nov 12:26

Each of the candidate vaccines (in Europe and the US) has been given to tens of thousands of people already, and all of them seem to have very low side effects.

I would hope that testing is taking place to look for autoimmune reactions e.g. Hashimoto’s hypothyroidism (which is believed to be triggered by some unknown virus, and is becoming another “epidemic”; and is usually undetected until the subject gets a long way down).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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