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Corona / Covid-19 Virus - General Discussion (politics go to the Off Topic / Politics thread)

LeSving wrote:

Corona is likely to be like flu, you need a new vaccine each season, there is no card for flu vaccine, since a flu vaccine is regarded as a personal protection, not a protection against a pandemic.

There is no to little evidence for your initial assertion – to the contrary all data we have indicates that the current vaccines are quite effective against every virus strain we know so far.

Covid is not Flu – it is a completely different virus and a completely different disease (much more dangerous). The only commonality is that Covid affect (amongst other organs in contrast to flu) the respiratory system and therefore some early symptoms are similar.
The reason that for “Flu” one needs a new vaccine every season is not that the virus mutates, but that by “Flu” we designate a whole family of viruses and it is different members of that family that are prevalent each year. This is something completely different then the comparatively tiny variations in the different Covid strains we know so far.

Germany

Of course it’s very different to flu, for the reasons you cite, but it might well need to be dealt with in much the same way – it may bubble away under the surface and in bad winters kill a reasonable number of people.

As the likes of Aus and NZ show, zero-Covid works but you have to (a) reach zero in the first place, and (b) close your borders. This won’t be long-term workable unless the mission becomes to eliminate it from the entire world.

EGLM & EGTN

I don’t think the current vaccines will get you to herd immunity, (80% with the new variants), on their own.

For a start: only 80% of the population are being vaccinated because children aren’t being jabbed.

And then the vaccines are not 100% effective against all infection:
The AZ trial reported 70% efficacy against symptomatic infection and 50% overall.
Pfizer was 95% against symptomatic infection and must also be lower than that overall.

So we cannot reach herd immunity without actual Covid infections in the population, both in children (who overwhelmingly do not get ill), and those whose vaccinations were ineffective, (who should get less ill because of the vaccination).

Selling that idea politically will be tough, especially in ‘disease-free’ countries like Australia and New Zealand. For them, with their current policies, all the current vaccines are ‘useless’.

White Waltham EGLM, United Kingdom

With Covid 19 and its variants has it been proven that there is such a thing as herd immunity and if so, how long it lasts?

France

Malibuflyer wrote:

There is no to little evidence for your initial assertion – to the contrary all data we have indicates that the current vaccines are quite effective against every virus strain we know so far.

That’s your opinion. A lot of people have another opinion.

Of course corona virus is a different virus than the influenza virus. They are however similar in nature. They are both highly contagious, there are lots of them around, so mutations are evolving and carried along fast and efficient. They are both deadly, but not by any means deadly enough to prevent them from hanging around. Most people don’t even notice they have had Covid. It is not an on/off and static kind of situation. It’s like flu vaccines. Old ones work with 20% efficiency, new ones with 50 . The Pfizer vaccine is 93 efficient today, but maybe only 70% next year, 50% the year after and so on.

I think we are entering a different phase now, and there are lots of different motivation around. Vaccination cards for instance. Their only use is for people to “feel safe”, and this causes a situation where people advice its use purely by economic motivation. You can “feel save” in all our airlines because we demand covid vaccination card.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

To drift a little, I was fascinated that a mathematician has calculated that if you gathered all the Covid viruses in existence together (in other words the virus in every infected person and on every surface and yes, on every face mask) it would just about fill one Coke tin. I thought this was quite a sobering trivial fact.

LeSving wrote:

I think we are entering a different phase now, and there are lots of different motivation around. Vaccination cards for instance. Their only use is for people to “feel safe”, and this causes a situation where people advice its use purely by economic motivation. You can “feel save” in all our airlines because we demand covid vaccination card.

But perhps there is some logic.

If you are on an aircraft on which everyone has been vaccinated (fraudulent cards aside) then even if some people are asymptomatic with the virus, or perhaps even not asymptomatic, statistically one might think two things 1) the number of people who are infected will probably be less than if no one had been vaccinated, and 2) those with the virus will probably be carrying lower (possibly much lower) viral loads. Both should mean you are a little less likely to be infected (perhaps more than a little). Of course when we have more data on just how effective the vaccines are, then we will have a better idea of how much the risk is reduced. It may therefore not just be about “feeling more safe”, but you may actually be more safe.

DavidS wrote:

Selling that idea politically will be tough, especially in ‘disease-free’ countries like Australia and New Zealand. For them, with their current policies, all the current vaccines are ‘useless’.

Coming from a (hopefully, once again) disease-free country, our government has already stated that it is not desirable nor practical to keep the borders closed in the long term, and it will be accepted that in the future we will have some circulation of the virus and some people are going to get sick. (We already accept that with the flu, norovirus, and various other illnesses). The vaccines sufficiently attenuating the spread so it doesn’t become a problem for the health service or people dying in droves are what will allow this to happen. The vaccines are certainly NOT seen as “useless”.

Andreas IOM

@alioth what was that ferry worker doing? Was he a bartender in the cafe?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

alioth wrote:

The vaccines are certainly NOT seen as “useless”.

That’s because they don’t have a long-term disease-free policy:

alioth wrote:

our government has already stated that it is not desirable nor practical to keep the borders closed in the long term, and it will be accepted that in the future we will have some circulation of the virus and some people are going to get sick.

The vaccines are only ‘useless’ with a policy to stay disease-free forever in a world full of infection. Your government seems to have taken a more pragmatic view, correctly recognising that vaccination makes it far less dangerous than before.

Last Edited by DavidS at 24 Feb 13:55
White Waltham EGLM, United Kingdom
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