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Why the UK is the only country with the IMC Rating

In my imc training we did quite a number of dme arcs (one at the airfield I was operating at) and plenty of ndb holds, I think we did a bit of most things required and I’d say I pretty comfortable with anything I’d be asked. Not so the case at the moment as my currency is low and I think that becomes the most important thing for skills and competency after you get the basics.

Peter wrote:

Well, yes, but consider the practicality. Biggin Hill has SIDs in class G but where do they take you?

Practicality – to train a pilot ACTUALLY flying an IFPI flightplan on IR(R) as PIC :).
Or to just fly in IMC when the cloud base is low.

And EGKB – they are SDRs officially (Standard Departure Routes), not SIDs, at least accourding to the official documents.

EGTR

Well, yes, but consider the practicality. Biggin Hill has SIDs in class G but where do they take you?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Practically, no class A means IAPs only, no deps, and almost never holds.

Peter, you mean in England only, right? In Scotland some SIDs and STARs are in Class E, like north of Glasgow. Or am I mistaken?

EGTR

Reading an article recently in an Aviation magazine, it was saying that the FAA and EASA hold regular meetings with the aim of both sets of regulations and practices coming closer together. One thing in particular is how N reg is to be handled in Europe. It seems EASA want to treat N reg and their pilots in Europe the same as foreign aircraft and pilots are treated in the USA.
I have no idea what that means as I have only flown N reg in USA on my piggybacked French licence.
Perhaps this means that the FAA IR and the EASA IR will become very similar.
I think from looking at it the oral and practical are very similar and the only striking difference is the amount of theory. I don’t see EASA adopting the IMC(R) for the whole of Europe anytime in the future, otherwise they would already have done it.

France

Every IFR procedure is within the IMCR privileges, so it is a case of what you need to use. Practically, no class A means IAPs only, no deps, and almost never holds.

Of course, holds are easy with modern avionics and this should be recognised.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Bathman wrote:

You can’t

Oh I certainly learnt them and could do them. Probably couldn’t do them very well now but that’s a matter of currency, currency of course being independent of which qualification you have.

There is obviously a difference in how much detail is gone into and how much practice is done. We flew maybe 2 or 3 DME arcs, simulated around some given VOR/DME and usually on the way to the airfield with the instrument approaches. We did not go to an airfield with a real DME arc in the approach procedure and do it for real as part of the approach, nor practice until we were blue in the face. It was more a case of ok fly like this and as you can see the DME range remains within 1nm, right you get the idea, have a look at these approach plates and see how it fits in. Ok next thing….

Perhaps some of this is down to the candidate. Perhaps with younger candidates going through the system for the airlines, with probably little or no tertiary education, they just don’t know what they don’t know and more rote-learning of such stuff is required?

Of course the IMCr was the first (and only) time I received any education from an instructor on the subject of DME arcs and NDB holds, but well before that I knew what they were and had a pretty good idea how one might go about flying them.

EGLM & EGTN

I think NDB approaches should be taught after all in the UK they must be the second most common approach after the ILS in the UK.

My only really usable airfield for approaches (the other being far to busy doing nothing) only has an ILS on one end. With NDB’s on both. So you have to be able to fly them. There is of course nothing wrong with radar vectored NDB approach.

Last Edited by Bathman at 07 Jul 07:06

Airborne_Again wrote:

NDB holds are something else — particularly if they have to be flown to UK standards.

Btw: Why are the UK standards for holds so strict? AFAIU they demand a precision way beyond what PANS-OPS requires.

Because the experts in the UK know better. Just look at me

Malibuflyer wrote:

I’m full of respect (and a little bit jealous) for pilots so great, that they can learn these within 15hrs.

You can’t but then most IMCR holders use the rating to fly through a bit of cloud on their way for a burger and an airfield an hour away.

What’s really needed is a cloud rating and an FAA style IR. None of this EIR and gold plated BIR that we currently have.

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