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Euro and GA

Ibra wrote:

You can always manage to get some “personal work” done while flying? or does it have to be “work = ATPL with 300pax behind” ?

Hmmm :thinking face: I have plenty of business to take care of in Europe, and the plane is owned by my company, so this makes sense.

Yes, it is fairly straightforward. I assume you are flying commercial as a dead head to ferry the plane somewhere.

Last Edited by JasonC at 17 Jul 19:09
EGTK Oxford

@JasonC that’s accurate.

As many posters have mentioned noise and CO2 as holding back GA in Europe, I wonder whether the imminent increase in electric planes (e.g. Pipistrel Velis Electro) will help. They will potentially solve 3 problems in one go: i) they are seen as being zero emission, ii) they drastically reduce operating costs, making GA more accessible and less elitist, and iii) they reduce noise which can make them a lot more acceptable with city planners, neighbours, etc.

Catania, Italy

FL300 wrote:

and iii) they reduce noise which can make them a lot more acceptable with city planners, neighbours, etc.

Most of the “external noise” real or imagined comes from propeller blades tips getting supersonic, there is no technical solution for this but you can reduce a lot using the right materials & geometry & rpm setting and most importantly keeping wing level bellow 2000ft agl, while most “internal noise” is engine & vibrations obviously, electric can do a lot here…

Last Edited by Ibra at 20 Jul 21:35
Paris/Essex, United Kingdom

“ii) they drastically reduce operating costs.”
They increase purchase costs. At present mogas costs me ~£26 per hour. Hangarage will be about the same as other aircraft. Insurance assume to be the same. Engine maintenance less, but battery in everyday private use an unknown.
£2600 for 100 hour year. £52,000 for 20 years. Buy a Jodel DR1050 for £25,000. How many years for fuel saving to recover purchase cost?

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

Most of the “external noise” real or imagined comes from propeller blades tips getting supersonic

Isn’t that a problem with very few aircraft types? At 2700 rpm and 200 KTAS you would need a propeller with more than 2 m diameter to reach M 0.9 at the propeller tips. Below that I wouldn’t expect locally supersonic flow.

Aircraft with props larger than that are typically turboprops with much lower rpm.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Isn’t the Cessna 185 in two-blade propeller configuration famous for going supersonic at the propeller tip on take -off. The old trick was to have a clothes peg on the propeller control to avoid going full fine.

There is bound to be a video with the highly distinctive noise of a 185 on take-off, and am pretty sure you are not on the neighbours’ Christmas card list!

Oxford (EGTK)

They increase purchase costs

You’re right with respect to ownership costs. I was thinking about the rental market, where operating costs are more of a factor. From what I’ve read, the overall operating cost of the Velis should be €4-5 per hour which is quite a reduction from something like a Cessna 150 (€50/hr?)

Catania, Italy
I think its exactly opposite- the 4-5 or 50 euros could be “direct fuel costs”, which are relevant when you own the aircraft and have to pay your fixed costs anyway.

renter has to pay the rental cost – which has to include purchase cost + maintenance cost divided over plane’s planned lifetime + direct fuel costs + some profit.

EETU, Estonia
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