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Interesting stuff on UK CAA policy on London City overflight by SE aircraft

A kid in the back of an SUV was seriously injured on a California urban Interstate when a Pa28 propeller struck her as it made a 3 cylinder landing shortly after take-off. No injuries on the aircraft.
A vehicle stopped at the side of another Californian road was more recently struck. There might have been fatalities.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

Timothy wrote:

Are overflights in singles allowed in Manhattan..

Yes. And jolly good fun it is too…

https://www.faasafety.gov/files/gslac/courses/content/79/775/kneeboard.pdf [ local copy ]

Circling the Statue of Liberty

• Do so at the highest practical altitude below 1,000 feet MSL
• Circle in a counter-clockwise direction
• Be aware that local helicopter tour operators fly an irregular pattern near the Statue of Liberty at approximately 500 feet
• Remain especially vigilant for other traffic in the vicinity of the Statue of Liberty

Last Edited by Pilot-H at 21 Oct 18:35

Timothy wrote:

Are overflights in singles allowed in Manhattan

Wrong question. One should ask – “are overflights in singles prohibited in Manhattan”. If it isn’t prohibited, it is allowed.

Biggin Hill

Re Manhattan, and I suppose London as well: if you’re at least 500’ above the buildings, the geography is such that you can almost always reach water and ditch in either the Hudson or East River, even if you experience engine failure at the most critical point. Manhattan is only two miles wide, and most ASEL/SEPs have maybe a 6:1 glide ratio without too much effort. Similarly, the City and Canary Wharf are both small enough, high enough, and close enough to the Thames that I don’t think it’s really that much of a risk. Really, the real risk comes from places that are dense enough to have a lot of people but not a lot of landing spots. So, somewhere like Regent’s Park or just north of Hyde Park in London, or parts of Queens in NYC. All that being said, I’m with Silvaire that engine failure induced failures from small SEPs are a negligible risk that don’t need extra regulation.

United States

Depending on the runways in use at Heathrow and City, transit is very often not above 1500’, or even at 1400’, via the London Eye.

Following an engine failure northbound at, say, Holborn or Camden, I doubt a single would get into the Thames. He might just make Regent’s Park or Hampstead Heath, but they are both so heavily used that people on the ground would be at considerable peril.

And I can’t agree that engine failures are so uncommon. There are so many individual points of failure on a piston engine that they are always at risk of failure, and we often see reports of it happening.

EGKB Biggin Hill

I wonder how SERA has affected the above situation.

Post-brexit, the UK exempted itself from the SERA 500ft AGL rule, but what about Rule 5?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I live inside EGLC CTR. Although it’s infrequent, I have occasionally seen SEPs flying overhead.

United Kingdom

I think commercial stuff (professional photography, paid training, arial surveys, charters) in SEP/SET, require NSF clearances and Whiskey numbers, the route has to be approved and engine failure scenarios has to be documented for commercial flying

Private flights doing VFR transit don’t require NSF, I did some of these flights, it’s perfectly legal under (UK) SERA, if you stay east there is an huge runway underneath wing to mitigate third party liability (or SERA3101), I took a picture of it one day, it’s not very visible (they don’t accept single engines in normal days but there is nothing in LCY AIP that says 0 engines are banned)

It’s nice view of London as long as you stay on east side

It’s nicer on sunsets from open cockpits

Going west of Canary Wharf to Vauxhall bridge is possible in MEP twins, in SEP it clearly violates SERA.3101, in twins, you need to stay at 1400ft not above and not lower and keep 500ft laterally from Shared (and remain outside clouds ), SkyDemon has distance measurement feature



Last Edited by Ibra at 17 Apr 14:20
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Private flights doing VFR transit don’t require NSF, I did some of these flights, it’s perfectly legal under (UK) SERA

That’s always been the case under Rule 5, but it’s also “always” been the case that the CAA regarded the terrain down there as not qualifying for an emergency landing for the purposes of Rule 5.

Hence my question on whether anyone knows anything specific on this. Last posts are from 2018.

I have photos like that too, as have many others, but the flight I did them on was illegal at the time, according to the then CAA policy (LCY cleared me, not realising this).

See post #1 for some FOIA-released CAA docs basically saying that they will lose a prosecution if they try one…

Anyway, your pics were done in a twin, which changes everything.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

AFAIK it is very unlikely that any ATC will question your actions. They will know it is illegal by your aircraft type but it’s not their role to ‘Police the sky’ in that way.
I have heard stories from more than several Pilots, who, hearing incorrectly that someone has done it without challenge, have gone off to do the same, then reported it was fine.

Last Edited by GA_Pete at 17 Apr 15:08
United Kingdom
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