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What if.. you lost your medical?

Flying is obviously a good incentive to stay healthy.
In my gliding club, those who lost their medical just tow… as in France you don’t need a medical to tow a glider with a microlight, but you do need a medical certificate to fly a glider, even solo.
Should I loose my medical I would purchase a microlight motorglider.

Last Edited by Piotr_Szut at 02 Mar 19:10

Piotr_Szut wrote:

in France you don’t need a medical to tow a glider with a microlight, but you do need a medical certificate to fly a glider, even solo.

Just checked. In Norway it is the same medical for gliders, balloons and microlight, so no luck here Lose your medical, go to France The glider medical is something all doctors can do though, just bring a special application paper.

I really don’t see the connection with these medicals and a usual check up at the normal doctor though. A check up at the private doctor is really thorough. A handful of blood tests, urine samples and so on. If there are something looking just a bit odd, you will be sent to a specialist or hospital.

The flying medical is simply to see if you still fulfill the minimum requirements. It’s not a general health assessment, not even close. It’s really odd that the employer of a flight crew pay for consulting the AME and not a general health assessment. It should be the other way around IMO.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

in France you don’t need a medical to tow a glider with a microlight

Surely that is an oversight / drafting error, because if a glider tug pilot gets incapacitated at a bad moment, he is likely to kill the (especially novice) glider pilot?

Anyway it’s useful to know one can fly ultralights in France with no medical at all. But what happens if you actually fail your EASA medical, say due to a heart condition? In the UK that would block you ever going onto the NPPL, or anything else. Can you really do that in France?

There is a big difference between just knowing about a condition and quietly dropping out of the medical system (legal because nobody knows you know, though not necessarily smart or socially responsible unless flying alone) and getting such a condition diagnosed and having it on the record (you are then probably flying with no insurance).

Bear in mind that EASA Part-Med is practically all a long list of self grounding conditions. Merely being aware is enough to void your medical, though obviously nobody can prove you were aware unless there is a record somewhere. And an AME has no duty of confidentiality (in the UK, anyway). This is not like the FAA list of self grounding conditions which is a lot more specific.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

For the UK, here is an update which I got from someone in this situation which some might find useful.

It is about downgrading from the CAA Class 1 or Class 2.

The NPPL Medical Declaration ceased to exist at the end of August 2016 and was replaced with the CAA Self Declaration you can make on the CAA website.

There is no longer any GP involvement – the pilot makes the self declaration; and that is it.

Go onto the CAA website by following this link

after reading the guidance here

Supposedly, you can use this declaration with the old UK national PPL (as well as the NPPL) which after April 2018 will be valid only for non EASA aircraft but quite possibly, post Brexit, this will change. You can now fly within the UK only but that’s better than nothing.

And (this is unverified) if you have the IMCR that should be valid on this license so you can fly IFR in Class D-G, again only within the UK. I have no idea what happens if you have a UK/JAA/EASA IR… can that be used with the self declaration? I doubt it, due to the audiogram requirement.

Both the NPPL and the UK national PPL are valid for an N-reg too – see here but due to FAR 61.3 you can fly an N-reg only within the UK even if say France accepts the NPPL and even though the UK national PPL is a full ICAO PPL. If you want to fly an N-reg outside the UK then an FAA Class 3 (special issuance if required) is your only option.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter’s post is a good reminder of what is available BUT because I “temporarily” did a self declaration and then subsequently went to my AME for a Class II again, an odd situation arose. Firstly my AME was not allowed to process the Class II because the CAA on line programme would not allow this. An application had to be made to delete the self declaration and then re-do the Class II. We were also asked if I had been flying an “EASA” aircraft on the self declaration and if so it would be reported to another department for “investigation”. How bizarre and needless to say AOPA was immediately involved.
Anyone care to comment?

UK, United Kingdom

Hmmm… an interesting data point!

AFAIK the medical declaration can be cancelled online, in the same way it was made – a different checkbox. But I have never done this myself.

We were also asked if I had been flying an “EASA” aircraft on the self declaration and if so it would be reported to another department for “investigation”.

I must be missing something here. You can fly an EASA aircraft (i.e. one with an EASA CofA) on the NPPL or the national PPL (with either the MD or a full ICAO medical) until April 2018, no? What you can’t do is use the MD with an EASA PPL. From the above link, see the second para

I wonder whether “certain” means anything beyond the stuff listed?

The inability to use the MD with an EASA PPL is bizzare. Post-Brexit it will be doubly bizzare, because the EU would be able to ban bullfighting in Spain 10x over before getting interested in something like this… It just means that anybody doing this has to obtain the NPPL or the national PPL. Fortunately both seem to be valid for life.

BTW I must be wrong about the IMCR because the above quote says VFR only.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

When I got my Class 2 in December 2016, my AME encouraged me to also complete the self-declaration, on his computer, in case my blood Hb#etc failed me on a test due this month, which I have to submit to him.
I’m about to do this – results slightly better.
I got an acknowledgement from the CAA for the self-declaration.
Did I immediately invalidate my EASA Class 2 before even paying him?
The only restrictions I can see are max AUW 2000kg, max 3 pax, non-EASA aircraft, and UK airspace.
It can be used with an EASA licence. No mention of VFR or day only. It can also be used for up to 5700kg AUW but I didn’t apply for that.

Last Edited by Maoraigh at 19 Mar 20:20
Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

Anyway it’s useful to know one can fly ultralights in France with no medical at all. But what happens if you actually fail your EASA medical, say due to a heart condition? In the UK that would block you ever going onto the NPPL, or anything else. Can you really do that in France?

I flew to France a few days ago and, as always,went out to see the local heroes. A very nice chap just got out of his beautiful VL3 microlight and we got to talk. He used to fly a Meridian but lost his medical (cardiovascular issue, stent placed) so he simply went the UL route. Apparently in France it is possible to go UL even if you fail your EASA medical. So, should I lose my EASA medical, could I just get my French UL license, buy myself a F-reg UL and live in Spain? Apparently not, because to station an F-reg in Spain you need to apply every 6 months for a permit to fly here, and the forms include the requirement to show a valid medical..

Last Edited by aart at 19 Mar 20:24
Private field, Mallorca, Spain

OK; what I was getting at is that it is probably illegal to have a stent put in and be flying again in some other aircraft class before some recovery time appropriate to that procedure, which here is 1 week for driving, 6 weeks for HGV (trucks, buses), 6 weeks for the UK medical declaration route, 6 months for any Part-MED Class 1 or 2 medical, etc. IOW, I would be really surprised if you could have a stent put in and right away fly in an ultralight simply because no medical is required for it. But I know absolutely minus zero about French law, obviously, and this will be in their national regs, and good luck finding those. I have no idea if France has anything like the UK medical declaration option, and if so, what recovery time they require for that (or for driving for that matter).

What your example pilot, Aart, could do is wait 6 months and then just get the full DGAC Part-MED medical again. If he can’t then his issue was a bit (a LOT) more than just a stent. Even after a heart attack and a bypass the wait is 6 months. Obviously this grounding is highly unattractive (maybe not so bad during the winter when many people basically don’t fly at all) but the real problem (and from what I hear the main reason people downgrade to the NPPL etc and the medical declaration) seems to be the very expensive reports required by the CAA (or the FAA) which you can’t get on the national health service and which cost into 4 figures (Bruce Protocol treadmill, echo cardiogram, whatever).

The 6 months parking limit seems common for non CofA “foreign reg” aircraft – multiple previous threads.

Going from a PA46T to a UL is a helluva downgrade in mission capability, not to mention a massive loss of investment in aircraft value, currency, rating(s) expiry. It’s a joke. Nobody actually flying a PA46 would dump it all for the sake of the 6 month wait, which can be alleviated by putting somebody else on the insurance (who will be jolly happy to get free flying in a SET and paid-for hotel rooms ). So I bet it wasn’t just a stent. Or maybe the downgrade coincided with a desire to pack it in anyway?

@Maoraigh AFAIK the medical declaration cannot be used with a Part-FCL (EASA) license. It can be used only with the NPPL or the UK national PPL, and you have to get one of these. I have no idea how to convert an EASA PPL into either of them; I don’t think there is a route. All you can transfer, I think, are any unexpired class ratings from the EASA one to the national one.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I have an update on this.

The chap I am in contact with who is doing the self declaration route has just been told by the UK CAA that the self declaration cannot be used for the initial issue of the UK national PPL. You need a current valid medical on your EASA PPL for them to issue the national PPL. Then there is just a £35 charge. They will copy over your SEP(LAND) class rating to the national one.

So, obviously, the recommendation is for anyone potentially in this position to apply for the national PPL while their Class 2 is still valid Cost £35.

This leaves just the NPPL as the only route if you want to downgrade to the medical declaration and have just an EASA PPL whose Class 1 or 2 is not valid for some reason. This has been verified with a phone call to the LAA. You ignore page 2 of their 4-page application, and they want the CAA PDF receipt for the medical declaration. Cost £152.

I wonder if any other country has a similar option to the UK NPPL?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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