PC-12 down in Milan Linate

This one sounds similar to http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/06/cessna-525c-citation-cj4-n614sb.html

BeechBaby wrote:

Romanian Billionaire conjours up all sorts of scenarios.

Why would Romanian billionaire be connected to any scenario not possible for let’s say UK billionaire or Croatian billionaire (oh wait such doesn’t exist)?

This PC-12 accident has final report that offers spatial disorientation as cause of accident that ended in enormous sink rate (11.752 ft/min) prior to the impact.

Or this one with similar root cause.

And another one spatial orientation problems.

And another one with spatial orientation problems.

There is one more recent accident (2019) but without final report. So before analyzing possible conspiracies or suicidal flights it’s useful to check history of PC-12 fatal accidents and see whether there are some similarities.

@Snoopy

If I have the correct link that report is a Citation CJ4, taking off at night into black hole conditions over a lake. It also entered IFR conditions immediately.

The Milan incident is a PC12, taking off day VFR, with cloud base circa 5k. It departed level flight at app 5350 ft. The cloud was also reported broken .Emir wrote:

Why would Romanian billionaire be connected to any scenario not possible for let’s say UK billionaire or Croatian billionaire (oh wait such doesn’t exist)?

You said that. I did not….Billionaires generally travel in G650, piloted with two crew, to keep them and the family safe..

@Beech

I see what you mean, however the similarity lies in the facts that

- HNWI owner pilot
- emulation of airline style a-b transportation with pax
- nothing wrong with the plane (tbc)
- no visual reference
- loss of control

Flying is high risk and life/death can be seconds apart.

Over 20 years ago I knew somebody who lost his father in a similar accident. Probably a medical issue but BFU was never sure. I think if one is very good in business this often comes with much stress, approaching 70 one is maybe not the youngest and sharpest pilot after all. If money does not matter why not spend some for a pro copilot. She/he can get the plane ready, supervise refueling, pay fees etc saving probably 30 min on every departure and in case you do mess up or need support there is a backup.

In the last years I did so many 2 crew flights that 1 crew became an exceptional event. It works but the margin for error simply decreases…

I find it amazing that one could lose control at 5300ft, with a cloudbase of 5000ft.

OK; a non instrument capable pilot could lose control very fast, but anybody flying a TB20 let alone a PC12 is going to have the autopilot engaged and the plane all sorted out and climbing steadily about 4000ft earlier.

Also one would quickly cover the vertical distance to 5000ft and then you are in VMC.

I just don’t get somebody who is bright enough to know they aren’t all that brilliant to be hand-flying all that way up, implementing ATC directions, all the other busy stuff, while being a hero and flying by hand. On an IR test you hand-fly; all the rest of the time you aren’t playing a hero and it is autopilot practically the whole time (except shortly before landing, or when practicing for the next IR test). I have known SEP pilots – particularly of certain models – who engage the AP at 100ft, and disengage it at 100ft.

So it could be an avionics failure, and that would spook most people if it happens at a bad moment. And with the biggest bit left of the wreckage being about the same size as post-Germanwings, they will never find out. They certainly won’t be extracting any error logs.

And with the biggest bit left of the wreckage being about the same size as post-Germanwings, they will never find out. They certainly won’t be extracting any error logs.

The Swiss TSB has already extracted data from a non-volatile memory chip recovered from a PC12 consumed by a post-crash fire so I wouldn’t rule it out ex ante.

Peter wrote:

They certainly won’t be extracting any error logs.

AFAIK this particular airframe has a ‘Black Box Lite’ installed. No idea what this thing records and if it survived, but there may be clues as to what happened here. My money is still on pilot incapacitation.

I find it amazing that one could lose control at 5300ft, with a cloudbase of 5000ft.

Read PC-12 accident reports I posted above and you’ll get it.

I think if one is very good in business this often comes with much stress, approaching 70 one is maybe not the youngest and sharpest pilot after all.

Or it can be spatial disorientation like in the cases I quoted above that happened even to military crew of one PC-12.

AFAIK this particular airframe has a ‘Black Box Lite’ installed. No idea what this thing records and if it survived, but there may be clues as to what happened here.

One of the first articles I read quoted public attorney saying that black box had been recovered.

OK; a non instrument capable pilot could lose control very fast,

In a perfect world an „instrument capable“ pilot doesn’t lose control. Reality is far from a perfect world.