Graham wrote:
@Esteban then there’s not much hope for freedom, is there.
Do you actually believe we are FREE? Ask the Canadian truckers, ask the poverty stricken throughout the UK if they can remove their Pay as You Go gas and electric meters, or their smart meters. The whole club is rigged, and guess what, you aint in it….
Sad times but as you watch this skirmish, all of your freedoms as you perhaps knew them have been binned.
Freedom is a relative term. IIUC Canadian truckers have a right to protest but not to block other people’s freedom to cross bridges or do business with people on the other side of the bridge.
On the other hand freedom in Russia would be to finally get out of the Gulags alive and in one piece, having been sent there for expressing a view that the powers that be are not doing a good job. No threat or disruption to other people or their businesses.
Canadian truckers have a right to protest but not to block other people’s freedom to cross bridges
On that basis, the UK is more free than Canada, because here any dickhead does have the freedom to block public roads and if he calls himself a “protester” the police can’t touch him 
And if he (she?) is trans, they bring him (her?) food (due to extreme aggression surrounding that whole topic)
The whole club is rigged
Oh yes, I forgot the Rockefeller conspiracy Amazing how many people buy into this BS. I once posted on FB, without a smiley, that on my daily bike ride I take special care to go under some 400kV power lines, to neutralise the vaccine nanoparticles, and I’d say 30% of the people believed it. I once posted on the US Socata owner group that I always fly at MTOW plus 30% because it gives me a useful increase in Va, and I reckon the % wasn’t much lower there…
esteban wrote:
I lived through the tail end of the cold war, I am more scared now than I was then.
You are not alone. There are reports this morning that several boomers have left Polyarny and I don’t think they are on a pleasure cruise.
Graham wrote:
The problem is Putin only has to hint about nuclear weapons and he is allowed to invade whoever he wants. We can’t go on like this, running scared every time he says that word. Some day we’re going to have to call his bluff and just throw him out of wherever he’s invading.
That is what our governments have chosen to do and it is the “right” thing from many points of view. The question is if the price we wish to pay for this includes nuclear anihilation. Esteban is right in this: A man like him who has no way out, what does he care if he lives or not? But heavens if he won’t take as many with him as he can. Many who know Putin, including Macron, have stated recently that there has been a massive change in his behaviour recently. This can have many reasons, but it also means that MAD does not mean anything to him anymore. He arrests and throws in prison his own people. So will he care if Moscow gets nuked as a response to him nuking half the western world? As much as he won’t even be there but in some bunker somewhere unleashing everything he has the moment that happens?
At this moment in time it does not matter what who when has done wrong, all that counts is stopping this madness. Now. There is time to deal with the ethical and political sides later. But unless this is resolved and Putin is offered at least a temporary way out, odds keep changing that there won’t be anything left to get right if escalations go on and on.
There are reports this morning that several boomers have left Polyarny and I don’t think they are on a pleasure cruise.
This doesn’t change anything. Even a single British SSBN can wipe out all significant bits of Russia…
The Q is whether Putin alone can launch. Obviously he cannot. No single person can. The US president can’t. There is no such thing as a “button”. British SSBNs can launch autonomously in specified circumstances; basically where the UK no longer exists, although according to a book I’ve just read a mad sailor could eject the missiles from the tubes, without igniting the engines. So there is a chain of command, and it would take a number of equally suicidal people in the Russian system to carry this out. Especially as it would be obvious to all involved down the line that this is a first strike, and their families will vanish shortly afterwards. Also, to anyone with more than 2 braincells, it would be obvious that this is a completely stupid thing to do.
With the news that Pakistan has done a huge economic deal with Russia should we IMMEDIATELY stop the millions/billions? in our foreign aid to Pakistan? If not will our cash not be supporting the Russian military?
Peter wrote:
The Q is whether Putin alone can launch. Obviously he cannot. No single person can. The US president can’t.
It takes him, the minister of defense or the commander of the forces, either of. All 3 were sitting at the table with him when he issued his threats.
Peter wrote:
Even a single British SSBN can wipe out all significant bits of Russia…
We are talking about a massive attack onto all of the West. All capitals, all military installations, everything. Several hundred warheads on dozens at least ICBMs or short range missiles fired from subs. That is why the subs were launched, to make sure they can hit “back” even if the Kremlin is no longer there.
Peter wrote:
So there is a chain of command, and it would take a number of equally suicidal people in the Russian system to carry this out.
Any two can issue the order to launch. And while there may be people who will not launch in some facilities, there will be enough who will. Any Nuke launched and hitting a western capital will bring immediate retaliation.
Putin is fully prepared for WW3. And he will, at least initially, survive it with his family in a secure facility, like the commanders of the retailatory forces will survive in their respective bunkers. His alternative right now is to face disgrace and possibly be shot by his own people. In his position, he will do anything to save himself. Rational thinking does not go into it the way you define what is stupid and what not.
I think many who talk the talk of the brave have never been in a situation where a massive bully has had your life in his hands and you need to take a split second decisinon whether it pais to be brave or run away to fight another day. Well, I have, several times, and as opposed to some who stood up, ended up without serious injury. It is not the first priority to face a bully down in the act of bullying, it is the priority to save your life, so you can fight the guy from a position of strenght. Right now, the West has their pants around their ankles and Putin stands with the nuclear threat which can wipe out all we know and love. Europe can be a smoking hole in the ground in 2 hours from now. Do we care if Putin gets his punishments thereafter if all that remains of you and your family is not even a memory?
Fenland_Flyer wrote:
With the news that Pakistan has done a huge economic deal with Russia should we IMMEDIATELY stop the millions/billions? in our foreign aid to Pakistan?
Absolutely.
It is also noteworthy that the Sandbox airlines are all continuing to fly overhead Russia. Maybe the Emirates figure they will be the only ones left soon so better not piss off the guy on the trigger.
Fenland_Flyer wrote:
With the news that Pakistan has done a huge economic deal with Russia should we IMMEDIATELY stop the millions/billions? in our foreign aid to Pakistan? If not will our cash not be supporting the Russian military?
An emphatic YES
Peter wrote:
I once posted on FB, without a smiley, that on my daily bike ride I take special care to go under some 400kV power lines, to neutralise the vaccine nanoparticles, and I’d say 30% of the people believed it.
So you are essentially a troll Good to know 
Peter wrote:
The Q is whether Putin alone can launch. Obviously he cannot. No single person can.
Strategic nuclear missiles, yes. What about tactical weapons (“battlefield nukes”)?
