To start with, can anyone make out the conversation in this video
First I can understand is at 1:27 from the RH pilot.
1:27 : RH: "Tu n'as pas sorti le train?" "Didn't you put the gear down?"
.... beeeeep
1:42 : LH: "Merde" "*****"
1:50 : LH: "....... , c'est trop vite, c'est trop vite." " ...... "it's too fast, it's too fast".
1:55 : RH: "Ah Bordelle" "Ah, *******"
2:16 : LH: "On etait trop occupé par l'avion devant"
2:19 : Other: "Oui oui oui" "Yes yes yes"
2:21 : RH: "Et moi, j'ai rien vu fumer non plus" "And I have not seen anything smoking either."
2:27 : Other: "Ca va vite, ca va vite un tel bordelle" "It happens fast (rep) such a ***"
2:33 : Other: "Ca, ce n'est pas une bonne affaire." "This is not a good business..."
2:35 : LH : "Non."
3:00 : Other: "(Nom) de dieu!" "In the name of God! (or rather "damn it")"
Continues here: www.youtube.com/embed/w6YWwJ0s_5k
The rest is muted by the beep of the gear warning....
Basically, very common situation where the pilot (and his instructor in this case) was disturbed by something else (here traffic, but could be a radio call) when he needed to lower the gear. He doesn't use a checklist (or gump) to prevent the mistake. On top of that, the miracle of technology (ANR headsets) just inhibits the last barrier (the beep and the intermittent beep) before the crash.
Nowadays, in flight schools, all retractable will end up their life being landed gear up...
At the same time, in airlines, landing gear up has become extremely rare! So their system and procedures are now extremely efficient to avoid such expensive mistake.
It's funny as I just finished a small device taking speed+descend information from my Dynon EFIS and a switch on my landing gear to illuminate or blink red/green leds located near the speed indicator. I was planning to install it tomorrow on my monowheel Europa... I have enough of finding that I forgot to put the gear down when doing my checks on final. Typically that happens when someone talks to me on the radio when I am waiting for my speed to decrease before lowering the gear.
So I would expect that if there is a good system to remind you to lower the gear when you need to, there are ways to prevent such mistakes. And so don't use an ANR headset if your it prevents to hear the beep for the landing gear or for the stall.
Nowadays, in flight schools, all retractable will end up their life being landed gear up...
Do you have data for that?
Most planes will not end their life (be written off by the insurer) due to a gear up landing, so if "all" thus landed at some stage, it would imply multiple gear up landings for every retractable. Insurance premiums would then be much higher if that really was the case. The typical complex retract claim would be about €25k (€45k for a twin, which most retracts used for training today are) and say one every 10 years would make insurance costs outrageous.
And so don't use an ANR headset if your it prevents to hear the beep for the landing gear or for the stall.
That can't explain that Megeve landing because even the A20 (the best ANR headset there is by a big margin) passes through all the beeps in a TB20, very clearly.
I recognise the word "bordelle" (funnily enough it has the same meaning in Czech) and clearly they were disturbed by something. By what? There was no apparent turbulence.
It has been suggested (don't recall where) that the two pilots thought it was an overspeed warning i.e. a total lack of type specific training (there is no such warning).
At my homebase, a highly experienced pilot did an involuntary gear up landing in a DA-42 a few weeks ago, allegedly after being distracted by an unexpected traffic situation. So yes, it may happen to everybody.
My ultimate line of denfence is a "final check" I do on every short final, consisting of "green light (there's only one in my plane), full flaps".
I consider the design of some gear warning systems rather unfortunate. In the DA-42, for instance, the warning squeaks away whenever you reduce ONE power lever below approximately 20 %. Therefore you get accustomed to the sound when practicing engine failure drills and you may not be as alarmed as you should when the thing sounds "for real".
Connected to this is the classic scenario of somebody (the instructor) pulling out the gear warning circuit breaker and forgetting to put it in again ...
Nowadays, in flight schools, all retractable will end up their life being landed gear up...
Do you have data for that?
Most planes will not end their life (be written off by the insurer) due to a gear up landing, so if "all" thus landed at some stage, it would imply multiple gear up landings for every retractable.
Don't have data on that, but just what I saw when going around in flight schools and asking where is this (typically old) plane. Typically, if it is a retractable gear, the answer is that it has been landed gear up and the cost to repair it was not worth.
That can't explain that Megeve landing because even the A20 (the best ANR headset there is by a big margin) passes through all the beeps in a TB20, very clearly.
Maybe with the A20. But when the pilot removed his headset, he told something like haaa! and was directly looking after the off switch to remove the beep (he even told "merde" as he was not able to find it directly :-)
clearly they were disturbed by something.
Traffic before them: 2:16 : LH: "On etait trop occupé par l'avion devant" This plane is very visible moving on the runway when playing in slow motion between 0:47 and 1:05
Your brain just filters the beep after some time, you stop hearing it. Try to fly on a low power setting for some time to set it off. After a few minutes you don't take notice of the warning. It can happen to everyone.
I thought about that video the other day when practising some single engine ops on my DA42, and during a bit of slow flight it finally occured to me what happened here:
When doing a dive landing (the approach looks steep), the gear up warning will go off as soon as you cut power, potentially way before you even enter the pattern.
The pilot knows this and is fully aware of the gear warning blaring off during the entire approach. And since he's still far away from the pattern he doesn't extend the gear immediately.
Only problem is, that he actually does forget to lower the gear at the end...
I do feel that most gear up warning systems are terribly crude designs. For one, why isn't GPS even used? The plane knows it's right over a runway (you might even have loaded an approach) and/or does know it's pretty close to terrain. Also like already mentioned, you get desensitized to the beeping sound as it pops up fairly easily on descents if you happen to throttle back just a bit too much etc.
I know a very experienced instructor who had a gear up landing whilst doing a reval with the aircraft owner. I think owner was lulled into "instructor is with me everything is ok" and instructor was probably less aware than usual because hes thinking "this guy is qualified and knows this aircraft better than I do".
I am a bit paranoid about the gear and tend to run through "reds, blues, greens" at 2 miles, 1 mile and when over threshold.
When doing a dive landing (the approach looks steep), the gear up warning will go off as soon as you cut power, potentially way before you even enter the pattern.
Again, on the TB20, the gear warning will go off if
So, to do a gear up landing, you need to do two things:
The first of those two is highly unusual, especially in the steep approach seen in the video. I often fly such steep approaches (much safer than "dragging" the plane in) and they cannot be done with half flap. The speed would be silly and certainly above 100kt.
However it is seemingly common for US pilots to land with half flap - because they have long hard runways almost everywhere, so they can afford to be sloppy. The POH says full flap for all conditions and I agree with that. Especially as ignoring that takes away one of the two safeguards against a gear up landing.
The second of those two is possible if you have a strong headwind, or are flying a shallow approach (1-2 degrees).
Of course anybody can land gear up if they ignore the warning, but I would suggest that is another level of mistake, because it is damn loud. I think those two pilots had no clue about the aircraft because there are only two things which can make such a continuous noise: a stall, or the gear warning. And either one should make you wake up and jump.
Typically, if it is a retractable gear, the answer is that it has been landed gear up and the cost to repair it was not worth.
I wonder what plane that was. Not a DA42, for sure. Maybe a very shagged Seminole with near-TBO engines? A simply equipped and poor condition twin is worth only what the engines are worth.
I do feel that most gear up warning systems are terribly crude designs. For one, why isn't GPS even used?
I very much agree... A GPS with "terrain" should give you a "five hundred" warning at 500ft AGL - irrespective of whether it knows about the runway. My G496 does that. The best solution is pricey: linking the gear to a radar altimeter... about €10k plus a slightly messy installation, and an instrument which can't be relied on at most smaller airports, due to misleading terrain under the final approach.
Try to fly on a low power setting for some time to set it off.
On the TB20, the lowest power setting at which the plane will fly is well above the throttle lever position below which you get the gear warning. Unless of course one is descending.
I think owner was lulled into "instructor is with me everything is ok"
Certainly, that is a powerful psychology. I have made many errors with an instructor in the RHS which I have never ever made otherwise. Especially - though this is not relevant to the gear - when it comes to navigation because in the JAA system one is conditioned to feel so guilty about looking at the GPS.
