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Why does the US appear to love GA, whereas Europe appears to hate it

@Peter Yes still here. I did finally fly to that airport in question recently, and the local airport manager made very clear that FOCA (Swiss CAA) “wants their statistics” and that they must use specialized software (which doesn’t work very well) and that creates PPR/paperwork demands that are silly. I think in Switzerland someone can sue on the basis of constitutional privacy that uncontrolled flight should not require reporting details to the government for every domestic arrival and departure, though to my knowledge nobody has.

That problem is made less burdensome at towered airports, as arrival data is auto-reported by ATC, though I recently had an issue at a towered airport where my email was considered inadequate and I had to power down, walk into the building, fill out a short form telling them where I was going, go back in, power up, and start over…..even though I told the same people by email. They wouldn’t take the details by radio though the FBO told me that the law allows it.

What amazes me is how many European pilots will surrender to the system and begin explaining to me, the ignorant American, how beneficial this system is. “What if something happens in flight? At least they know where to look.” “Oh excellent. So they are going to institute a mandatory reporting system before driving on all mountain roads and hiking in the Alps?”

The FAA is obviously one authority serving one large country that generally administers things well. What keeps it that way is that AOPA will smack them around if they come up with boneheaded ideas (which they and politicians have). European GA completely surrenders to a sometimes impossible combination of multiple regulatory authorities. I am of the believe that there should be a well funded single AOPA for all of Europe with an army of lawyers, but like everyone else, I do little about it but rant and then carry on trying to avoid the most annoying of obstructions.

No such thing as constitutional right to privacy in Switzerland. All the constitution says is that private life (family, domicile, correspondence) is due to be respected, and people are protected against abusive data use. Nowhere does it say that private data respect means the government surrendering its right to enforcing territorial sovereignty (i.e. enforcing entry / exit controls).

T28
Switzerland

Never had any issues with flying in Switzerland. In general, they have stuff very well organized, even when some noise abatement rules are ridiculously strict. To fill in the flight details in the C-office computer is mostly quickly done, if needed at all. Many unattended aerodromes just need an envelope with the landing fees, and basic flight details written on it. That’s it. If you don’t have cash with you, you can do a bank transfer or pay with Twint. Some have even payment terminals for debit and creditcard payments in self-service. And when it comes to flying from/to controlled aerodromes, I just file a quick flight plan, so the FBO and ATC have already all the flight details, plus I have SAR, which is never bad when flying around mountainous terrain.

Most of the Swiss airfields have upgraded their fuel pumps recently with payment terminals, which accept most debit- and creditcards. Very easy and fast to use. No need of special Total or BP-fuel cards, nor for high amounts of cash money.

Yes, for sure, there will be enough less complicated countries in Europe, where you don’t need to register your flight details or don’t have those strict traffic patterns with noise abatement rules. But, after all, you can fly during the day quite uncomplicated and unlike Germany, airfields don’t have to be attended at all times.

Last Edited by Frans at 27 Feb 14:56
Switzerland

Hypoxia, your observations and reaction reassures me greatly. We are not abnormal after all
May your ideas be heard !

LFOU, France

hypoxiacub wrote:

I did finally fly to that airport in question recently, and the local airport manager made very clear that FOCA (Swiss CAA) “wants their statistics” and that they must use specialized software (which doesn’t work very well) and that creates PPR/paperwork demands that are silly.

I think I can guess which airport you are talking about and it is actually one of the easiest and nicest in that regard we have here. They are usually very much relaxed and like anywhere with the typical self service fuel have an automat that would have pilots in most European countries where only specific fuel cards are accepted in raptures as it accepts most regular bank cards.

Generally the airport manager has got it right with regards to the regulation in place. All airports need to register the movements, which also serve for landing fee billing. Up to some years ago, this was a cumbersome process with filling in papers, throwing them in a slot and them having to dechyper them and put them in a statistic. If you consider that on many club airfields the function of airfield managers are done by volonteers one may well understand why they went electronic some years back. PPR in Wangen Lachen is actually pro forma, all you need to do is call a number which will tell you if the airfield is open or not. I agree this could be done by visiting their website as well, as it is in some others, but that is all there is to it. Again, it is a requirement that the airport operator has an approved way of informing pilots about the status of the airfield if the airfield itself is unattended.

Generally most airfields are like this, very easy to work with as long as you read the AIP information and visit their websites. Many are unattended, which would be impossible elsewhere. Many offer limited customs facilities (which usually require prior notice) and therefore it is quite easy to depart or arrive from Schengen airports. While we have quite a few issues to nag about in Switzerland, our aerodromes mostly are very welcoming and without any noticable hassle.

Having said all that, most airfields in Switzerland are under threat from some or the other anti noise or anti GA group and all of them need to dot the i’s and be careful how they operate lest they give their opponents reason to score another hit. Many have yearly movement limitations which is one reason the statistics need to be kept.

Generally I find flying in Germany, Austria and Switzerland quite straightforward, with exceptions of course, but very much feasible.

Obviously the system is different than in the US, but seeing what their AOPA have to fight for, it is not that the US airport and GA scene does have no hurdles to overcome. In recent years I hear mounting insurance problems, many airports are under threat from land developers posing as environmentalists e.t.c. No difference really, even though clearly the general way aviation is conducted there on a daily basis is much more relaxed. I suppose the major difference is that most airports in the US are infrastructure and treated like it, whilst in Europe most small airfields are run by privately operated non-profit organisations and actual property of the clubs in question. By most politicians they are regarded as nuissance or a playing field for the rich, not unlike golf courses, which could be used for “better” purposes, which differ depending on which lobby you listen to. The lack of reckognition that the small airfields are as much infrastructure as the large ones and that GA is one sort of private transport just like cars or bicycles which should have a right of proper infrastructure is the main problem our airfields encounter every day.

Do we have grievances? Sure as heck, many. i.e. very limited night flying possibilities, strict airport hours often even with restrictions over lunch time, many airfields are pricy, VFR in Switzerland is under a huge threat of Zurich TMA being redesigned to something which will make scud running the norm rather than the exception and so on. But the status quo per se is one which should be manageable for most folks who know similar regimes around Europe.

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 27 Feb 20:20
LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland
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