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ALL Italian airports: non Schengen flights are possible

Also, until I read it on EuroGA from I believe Achim, I had never heard that Immigration alone (which is all that’s needed for a UK flight) could be arranged at any German airport, by sending a notice to “somebody”.

Not any German airfield (airport would be the wrong term here as all airports have Customs), just the ones with immigration as written in the AIP. And not sending a notice to “somebody” but the airfield operator/AFIS.

The fact is that in 2014 only a very small minority of private pilots care about this stuff. It’s the UK and and Switzerland basically. How many private GA flights are there between small airfields in Italy or Germany and the UK?

How many private GA flights are there between small airfields in Italy or Germany and the UK?

There would be a lot more if they knew about this.

That is increasingly true as airports drop “Customs”. France dropped them from about 50 airports a couple of years ago and those airports lost anything up to (reportedly) 30% of their traffic, overnight.

For any pilot who likes to go places (rather than the “perpetually retired” community which likes to take their time and sample the local delights wherever they end up) stopping to clear Schengen is a huge hassle and an additional weather risk.

Also a lot of airports that are usable with PNR have silly PNR periods e.g. 24hrs or 48hrs.

Don’t dismiss the UK GA community so readily. It is HUGE and about the same size as Germany’s and no other country in Europe is anywhere near the size of those two (not taking into account aviation communities which basically almost never fly anywhere). UK pilots have the huge advantage of speaking English which is the aviation standard, and they travel abroad a LOT – probably more than any other European country.

all airports have Customs

Have to differ on that one

there are local variations which aren’t documented anywhere…..

One would not be able to document those, because a non local language speaker is likely to get into trouble doing that. In Spain and Italy, I would be very uncomfortable trying that.

Last Edited by Peter at 29 Jul 10:32
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter,
let’s take Padova (LIPU) as an example. You should go to AIP, ADe and get to List of Aerofromes". You’ll find Padova in the secon list “Other airfields”. In the first part of the description you find all the references, numbers, Civil Aviation office having jurisdiction on it (Venezia)…
Or simply Google Aeroporto civile Padove, click on the Union Jack (amazingly there’s an English section), go to numbers and you’ll see:

Airport Management 049.8716355 + fax 049 8715681
Air traffic control office 049.8716377
Control tower (ENAV SpA) 049.8727111
Police 049.833111
QUESTURA DI PADOVA 049.833325
Carabinieri 049.8521111
Tax officers 049.7808490
Customs 049.8702626 * (not on site)
Fire brigade 049.7921711
Radio Taxi 049.651333
Aero Club Padova 049.8718599
Nea Nord est Aeroservizi s.r.l. 049.8722242
Fiavet Veneto Servizi s.r.l. 049.8722387
" I° Aerobrigata " Air force 049.8222111
Cirrus Italy 049.8779479
Elisoccorso-Suem 118 049.8687314
Aviotrade s.a.s. ( aviation advise ) 049.2023119
F.T.O. 049.723402

Personally I suggest always talking with locals (when possible). In this case mr Roberto Berardi, chief instructrors with the local flight school FTO Padova( +39 049723402)
He speaks english and is familiar with the CAA.

Many thanks for that

My concern is this: the Customs number is a phone. They probably won’t speak Italian, so one is looking for a fax or an email address. But, either way, what evidence of the notice should one obtain? I find that Customs offices almost never confirm receipt of a notice.

So if I was doing this I would start on one of the other numbers and try to make contact to get the address for a written notice. Navbox Pro is quite good for getting numbers e.g.

and as you can see the main numbers seem to be right.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

They probably won’t speak Italian

I seriously doubt this

LSZK, Switzerland

They’re unlikely to speak in general
Peter,
If you go to a private, licensed airport, although not an international one, I’d say fax the APT operator in advance, tell them where you’re coming from and ask about Customs.
By the way, ask about fuel availability and landing fees as well. Worst case scenario, you keep the fax transmission confirmation.
If you go to an airstrip, just ring the operator. You’ll find his (her) name in the ENAC’s list *http://moduliweb.enac.gov.it/Applicazioni/avioeli/avio_01.asp*
If it’s not there, theoretically you’re not supposed to land with a GA airplane. Ultralight only.
Most of Italians just go and most of time Customs is just interested in foreign registered aicraft as long as they believe that an italian owner is trying to avoid the luxury tax.
It doesn’t happen frequently and, if you dont’ speak italian, in the unlikely event they’ve shown up, they’ll soon give up. This is where the language barrier is of big help.
Anyway, always go to the AIP and read the description. Besides it’s free.
A possible get out of jail free card is a fax, or an e-mail, to the local Carabinieri. www.carabinieri.it then select EN for english (right hand side, to the top) and then “find your local force”
Then select “comando di prossimita” and you’ll find who has jurisdiction over the area. This comes good when you fly to airstrips.
No need to write much. Just the same data you would put in a GAR, without ID numers. Just a declaration that all of your passengers possess a valid Passport or EU identity card.
Plus registration, people in board, your name, place you’re coming from, place you’re leaving to and your phone contact (if you have one).
It is true that even this option requires a little italian, but if you’re ground zero, I strongly advise you to go for an international airport, where you’ll find an handler that could communicate in English.

> Not any German airfield (airport would be the wrong term here as all airports have Customs), just the ones with immigration as written in the AIP. And not sending a notice to
> “somebody” but the airfield operator/AFIS.
I do this for years and there is an agreement between the local police and e.g, Hassfurt.

> The fact is that in 2014 only a very small minority of private pilots care about this stuff. It’s the UK and and Switzerland basically. How many private GA flights are there between
> small airfields in Italy or Germany and the UK?
How many privat GA flights cross a border? Not many.

EGBE - Coventry

How many privat GA flights cross a border? Not many.

Sure, but that’s only due to PPL training being geared to the obvious market, which is ticking the “learnt to fly” box and then dropping it all. A bit like a 16 year old boy “getting” his first girl Except he doesn’t drop “it” at that point.

Only a tiny % of private pilots who get a PPL fly abroad, ever. But there are still many of them, hence the large interest in all material which covers flying abroad. This is why EuroGA should be an informative site.

Flying abroad also delivers great value in GA and keeps people flying. There is an obvious huge correlation between those who fly abroad (at least sometimes) and who keep flying in the long term. So any capability to fly abroad is worth encouraging.

Well, I know you know all that anyway

Last Edited by Peter at 29 Jul 15:29
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Flying abroad was nearly the solely motivation for me to make the PPL. It`s hard to understand why so many GA pilots, many of them with an own aircraft, reduce theirself for flights to a nearby airfield for a 100 Euro-coffee. Yes, it is sometimes quite difficult to rule out all the hassles which are discussed here and one has to cope with foreign languages (I know that my English is not perfect), but landing at the planned destination after a long distance flight is a great experiance and delivers also great value for ones personage. Also it is self evident to leave the airport to get all the impressions of foreign countries by looking around, rest at nice places while preparing for the return. That is what flying is made for.

Berlin, Germany

Money, money, money. A great percentage of the owners at my airfield don’t have the funds for long distance trips. It’s as simple as that.

I think it’s harder for UK pilots. First of all you are in a “corner” of Europe and most importantly any trip abroad requires passing the North Sea which is not where you want to ditch.

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