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ALL Italian airports: non Schengen flights are possible

…but that will be better soon, when they have an independent neighbour country on their North…

Seriously, though: myself living in a small country, where you can’t fly 200 NM in a straight line without crossing a border, am surprised at the percentage of pilots that will never fly abroad. Nothing to do with cost: EBZH-EDRK is less far and less expensive (and far more rewarding!) than EBZH-EBSG, yet the former is considered an adventure, whereas the latter flight is rather common.

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

any trip abroad requires passing the North Sea which is not where you want to ditch.

If you live in the south, not usually. From the south coast or anywhere near, you are looking at something like this

where you are in glide range at FL100 or more. True – you need an IR for that. But an IR is another thing which expands one’s horizons a lot.

Going directly south is different and one is out of glide range for 30-45 mins, but I don’t detect that pilots who go abroad at all are too worried about that.

A great percentage of the owners at my airfield don’t have the funds for long distance trips

What sort of planes do they own?

am surprised at the percentage of pilots that will never fly abroad

I heard a staggering statistic recently from one fly-in organiser about this. I think it was about 50% who absolutely refused, and these were about as far away from the ultralight community as you could get.

Last Edited by Peter at 29 Jul 21:14
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter,

What sort of planes do they own?

VFR budget planes such as C150, 172, PA28 and of course most ULs

Border crossing has indeed become much more of an issue than it used to be, especcially for UK and Swiss based operators. Primarily because some countries (France in particular) are dumping AOE status by the dozens, which channels all the international traffic to the few remaining ones. Then there are PPR / PNR requirements which can’t to 90% be met by VFR operations as their dispatch rate per se is less than 10% in Europe.

Tactics we use from here is to define one or two reliable and hassle free EU/Schengen Airports of Entry and use those as an initial landing point and then proceed within the Schengen/EU area from there. Quite a few people actually base their planes in Germany for that reason around ZRH (Bohlhof or Donaueschingen to mention two fields) or Anemasse in Geneva.

In Switzerland aviation has been screwed over with the Schengen agreement which works for almost everywhere else but which has left aerodromes which used to have AOE status with a reduced Schengen regime, whereby they can still operate in and out of Schengen but not to places like the UK or Croatia and that often at a staggering cost.

It does not surprise me therefore that people are reluctant/scared to fly abroad. Even a coffee trip from Switzerland to Germany these days requires pre-planning which is too much for a lot of people.

LSZH, Switzerland

Even a coffee trip from Switzerland to Germany these days requires pre-planning which is too much for a lot of people.

I agree and I have been avoiding Switzerland for quite some time due to the hassle with customs. My airfield has lost customs status after more than 35 years due to lack of demand and while I can still directly fly to Switzerland, I have to make a customs stop on the way back. It didn’t help that one of Switzerland’s greatest airfields (Samedan) has first become unaffordable and now practically inaccessible.

It’s amazing that I can fly to Prague without filing a flight plan, telling anybody about it, talking to anybody on the radio but I have to go through an expensive massive hassle to fly to our next neighbor that shares the language and much of the culture.

Urs,

Yet another of those “all is bad” posts?

First of all, that 10% despatch rate is yours and yours only. My VFR rate has been more like 70% this year and I am sure the others are at least somewhere in the middle.

Second: you can’t deny that cross-european flying has become much easier in the past 20 years. English is becoming more and more common everywhere. Rules tend to become more uniform across Europe (very slowly but steadily). Add other innovations like SkyDemon (including much easier flightplan filing these days) to the equation and it becomes all too obvious.

To put it a bit harsh: senior pilots who do speak some English yet don’t fly abroad just “because it’s too complicated” are simply chickens.

And finally the customs / immigration thing. 90% of all related developments in recent years have been positive. 90% of all European private pilots benefit hugely (read the new PuF issue which will be out tomorrow). Granted – Switzerland with its non-EU status is a special case and yes, the effects of customs and immigration aerodromes being reduced in other countries come as an inconvenience. But what’s important is the big picture, which is certainly much improved.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 30 Jul 07:51
Frankfurt (EDFZ, EDFE), Germany

Even a coffee trip from Switzerland to Germany these days requires pre-planning which is too much for a lot of people.

In that case they should not be flying at all, IMHO. You always needed to do something to cross national frontiers.

But maybe the problem is the “coffee trip” as a mission objective. Paying €100-200 for a coffee is sure going to put people off flying. All the time people are doing that (and I accept that most of GA is doing just that) they will chuck it in fast.

Anyway – any views on writing up a collection of these concessions?

And is there any evidence that anybody in Italy knows about that text in GEN 1.2 i.e. if you take advantage of it, you won’t get arrested?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

You always needed to do something to cross national frontiers.

Yep – get in an airplane!

Seriously – the point Bosco is trying to make (and I agree with him), is that transnational flights have become a lot easier in Europe. Within Schengenland you can come and go as you please, nothing other than routine flightplanning required. The fact that CH and GB are outside this regime is a pity (or a blessing – depends who you ask….), but for the rest, and that’s the vast majority, things have indeed improved a lot.

Btw, you don’t have to fly anywhere from CH to pay EUR 100 for coffee – just go to the nearest cafe! I’ve just done some – fantastic! – local flying around CH with a friend, but the prices for everything there are eye watering. And I thought, living in central London, I was used to steep cost of living. Not so, it turns out…..

And the point Mooney Driver is making is that for_him transnational flights have become harder. Only I am afraid he has only his own authorities to thank.

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

And I thought, living in central London, I was used to steep cost of living. Not so, it turns out

Didn’t you know that Zurich is the most expensive city in Europe? London is a cheap place.

EGBE - Coventry

I knew about Zurich, although not having been in a couple of years, it was still amazing. Also, I usually stay with friends there, so am not that much exposed to the ‘real world’. The real shockers came in smaller places around the country.

London is a cheap place.

I don’t think you’d find many people – especially from the continent – who share that view.

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