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How far can you move before needing a taxi clearance for the movement?

tach time (side question: that’s not the same as hobbs, right?)

A tachometer accumulates the total number of revolutions performed by the engine.
So on the ground, the tachometer will hardly move.

If your trip tacho time was less then the actual flying time, it means that you were cruising with a power setting which was lower than the reference RPM.

Most aircraft renters will charge based on hobbs time: This is actual time the engine is running (or Electric Master is ON).

Now after lenthamen’s tip to check out the club in Paderborn

I have no personal experience with this club, but I do know (Dutch) pilots that rent there.
How was your experience with this club? What was the state of the aircraft? How long did you rent the C172?

I have no personal experience with this club, but I do know (Dutch) pilots that rent there.

I didn’t mean to create that impression, although it was your suggestion to have a look at their website which made me stumble across them.

How was your experience with this club? What was the state of the aircraft? How long did you rent the C172?

Let’s put it this way: I’m not a club-type person and was and am reluctant to tie myself to a club environment. It’s just not my thing. I prefer “open” communities such as this forum. However, after some due diligence, it made financial sense to pay the joining fee AND the first annual fee on top of the (really competitive) rental charges just for this trip alone – so I signed up. I must say, I’ve been welcomed nicely both by the chairman and the director on the phone. As this was a last minute change of plan for me, I needed a quick check flight, which was made possible on short notice.

The aircraft, as far as I can tell, are all well maintained by the club’s own mechanic, they run their own repair shop. The aircraft I rented was given a thorough check before I set out and was equipped with most of the things I asked for (tie-down set, wind shield cover, life jackets, etc.). I had the C172 for 9 days from Thursday to the following Sunday and flew 16,5 hours.

Now that I’m a member, I might join some of their meetings, although it is a substantial drive for me (~ 2 hours). In terms of renting, I will rent from there for longer trips in excess of 2-3 days and at my local field for any short trips and local flights.

Essen-Mülheim (EDLE), Düsseldorf (EDDL), Paderborn (EDLP), Mönchengladbach (EDLN), Germany

Whatever the billing scheme is, whether it is tach, hobbs, block time, flight time… the cost of operating the aircraft does need to be covered by the renter. In other words the cost of flying remains the same, even though psychologically some may feel pain in their wallets from leaving the engine running on the ground.

LFPT, LFPN

Whatever the billing scheme is, whether it is tach, hobbs, block time, flight time… the cost of operating the aircraft does need to be covered by the renter

That’s true, but different billing schemes will create different incentives as to “behaviour”.

And as anybody who revolves around the community knows, there is a fairly wide spectrum of “behaviour” in the rental business. You really don’t want to create any incentives to behave badly

I guess the problem is that if you have two oufits at one airfield, one billing brakes off to brakes on and the other billing for airborne time, the first one will appear some 20% cheaper. On a flight of about 1hr they will both work out similar. On long flights, the first one will be cheaper because longer trips are being subsidised by short trips.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

This is actual time the engine is running (or Electric Master is ON).

I guess billing based on an electric master driven hobbs creates quite a strong temptation to go NORDO for some real cheap flying…

Every club I know in switzerland bills flight time measured by a ram air / static pressure differential actuated timer.

LSZK, Switzerland

In fact, brakes on to brakes off is very uncommon in Europe. Some aircraft nowadays use a tracking device which senses movements during the time the engine is running, but again, that’s more of an exception.

The reason why most people don’t move off the fuel pumps as soon as the engine is running is that
a) most people just don’t even relise anything that’s happening in the surroundings (e.g. people waiting behind them) and b) most private pilots are unfortunately very unsure with their flying and just can’t tolerate any deviations from their normal checklist routine so they go all the way to the end of it and then move out of the way.

ATC will 99% not bother anyone for moving by 15 meters from the pump (happenend only once to me in 15 years of flying and that guy was certainly an idiot).

Last Edited by boscomantico at 15 Aug 17:14
Frankfurt (EDFZ, EDFE), Germany

The simple solution is to simply pull the aircraft a few meters forward. I figure no ATC clearance is required to relocate the aircraft within a few meters if the engine is off, and my radio is off too so ATC can’t complain ;)

EIWT Weston

Boscomantico hits the nail on the head… It’s a matter of pilots being unaware of whats happening around them, and they’re just not trained to do a quick startup to taxi the aircraft to a quiet place, where they can run through the checklist without standing in the way.

You would be surprised to see how many people fly less then 2hrs per month on average…

I had the C172 for 9 days from Thursday to the following Sunday and flew 16,5 hours.

That is really, really good Rhino. You won’t be able to rent an aircraft from a commercial rental company flying it for just 2hrs per day on average…
They will ask you to fly it for at least 4hrs / day.

Now that I’m a member, I might join some of their meetings, although it is a substantial drive for me (~ 2 hours). In terms of renting, I will rent from there for longer trips in excess of 2-3 days and at my local field for any short trips and local flights.

Sounds good! Being able to rent an aircraft for a longer period and for a good rate is not very common.
Looking forward to your Balkan trip writeup!

That is really, really good Rhino. You won’t be able to rent an aircraft from a commercial rental company flying it for just 2hrs per day on average…
They will ask you to fly it for at least 4hrs / day.

Can’t agree. The standard seems to be more like “2 hours a day on weekdays and three hours a day at weekends”. Also, when it’s a club aircraft (as in Rhino’s case) it can often be further reduced by prior negotiation.

Places calling for four hours should really be boycotted as that doesn’t allow any touring really. Anyway, I’ve never come across that, except at some places in the US focussing on “time builders”.

Frankfurt (EDFZ, EDFE), Germany
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