When I take a trip in a car, an average day is about
1100 km.
The Guardian did indeed mention it was apparently in production rather than a prototype.
However when a “this is what it’ll do” press release focuses on subjective and poorly-defined statements about what could be done with a product and avoids giving the simple data (capacity in kWh, cost, charging voltage/current) that would allow someone with a scientific education to make an objective assessment of the merits of it, that’s when my vapourware alarms go off.
My bet is that whenever anyone pushing a battery makes a claim about how long it’ll last, they’re making some ludicrously low assumption on how much power the EV draws.
It is perhaps also worth considering, with EVs, people’s likely attitude to battery exhaustion. With a diesel or gasoline engine we often run close to fuel exhaustion not only because fuel stations are all over the place but because we know that in the event we do actually run out, the problem can be solved with a 5L plastic can and a lift/taxi/walk.
With an EV, if you run out then you need a tow. It’s going to be a major expense and hassle. I think you’ll find people will add large safety margins that will make your 300-mile EV a 250-mile EV for planning purposes. Similar to aircraft fuel planning really – we all like a certain minimum LFOB because of the safety implications of running out, so perhaps with EVs we’ll see something similar, although for a different reason – the cost/hassle of running out, which with gas/diesel many people seem happy to risk.
LeSving wrote:
Last Sunday, my wife and I drove 400 km in -15 to -19 degree C in an electric car with 250 km “summer range”, meaning 130 km -20 deg range no problems whatsoever.
So on a 400km journey you stopped to charge the car 2-3 times? Or are you saying it vastly outperformed the advertised range and you didn’t have to stop?
I’m afraid I don’t buy your money-saved argument. If I spend £20,000 on an EV, that same money would buy approx. 17,300 litres of diesel at today’s prices. That diesel will carry me approximately 278,000 km, in a car I already own, which based on my present habits represents my likely mileage for at least the next 10-15 years.
Then remember that once governments lose the revenue on gas/diesel, you will find your electricity taxed (or your journey taxed via road pricing for EVs) to make it up.
I agree that such vague press reports ought not to be regurgitated.
Silvaire, you’re an extreme outlier so whilst I can see an electrical vehicle probably doesn’t make sense for you or perhaps generally for people in your geographical community, the majority of people make much shorter trips by car.
As LeSving says, range anxiety really only applies if you drive more in a day than comfortable return range home, or range to overnight destination with charging, since in practice you ‘fill up’ overnight at home.
Beyond that, a trip near the range of an EV takes more planning than we are used to. Personally I find the planned break every few hours to have a coffee and relax for 30 mins quite refreshing; it feels like a kick-back to an earlier, less frantic age.
There are two caveats which still apply and where we have some way to go
– Those people who can’t charge at home overnight have a problem.
– The density of the ‘rapid’ and ultra-rapid charging networks is not good, even in a Tesla which is MUCH better than anyone else’s
As infrastructure develops, these will become less and less problematic; only salespeople or other people on the road every day need to get used to having more breaks.
My pet peeve is the fragmentation and generally absolutely crappy state of the charging infrastructure. Every network has its own card, its own app, and whenever you use them the app has been updated, your password has expired, or something else is not working. In a year of charging, I have yet to manage to use a public charger ‘pay as you go’ without spending 5 minutes or more to get it going – at a Tesla Supercharger, I just pull up, plug in and that is it.
While we are on pet peeves – the false charge speed advertising…
Fast —> Very slow.
Rapid —> Slow
Supercharger / ultra-rapid —> fast enough
Nothing —> really fast
The killer for me is the capital cost.
I don’t buy new cars and I don’t use credit or any sort of HP/lease. My normal strategy is to buy £6-9k worth of used car, having carefully researched the model I want in terms of reliability, economy, meeting my needs, etc, and then to keep it until repair becomes uneconomical. I don’t anticipate disposing of my current vehicle (a 2009 Honda CR-V) for least 5 years, probably closer to 10. My overall cost of ownership, over time, is far lower than it is for people who either buy new cars or lease them.
The fact that no stable used car market has developed in EVs, nor seems likely to develop while the technology changes so quickly, is going to be a barrier to entry to an awful lot of people.
kwlf wrote:
Silvaire, you’re an extreme outlier so whilst I can see an electrical vehicle probably doesn’t make sense for you or perhaps generally for people in your geographical community, the majority of people make much shorter trips by car.
Not at all an outlier, completely normal in the US. I live I in an area of middling population density but in common with anybody here have a many places to drive and people to see that are 1000 or miles or a day and a half away.
My mid-range, mid-size Japanese car cost €18K new including tax, and runs on fuel costing about €0.55 per liter, fully taxed. It will last 300K kilometers before I toss it. It works fine and driven say 2000 km per month is not a major expense that I need to consider compromising with less utility to save a small amount of money.
Well, there is a whole spectrum of usage. And most people want “convergence” i.e. 1 car for everything. Especially with the prices…
For example I could do 90% of my driving with a little plug-in runabout. I have a garage so the useless heater would be OK because I can have a 1kW heater inside (perhaps even inside the car) on a timer 
But then sometimes I have to do a 200-mile day trip, for which I would need a high-end model; probably a Tesla.
In the meantime, my diesel VW costs me £70/month in fuel, is dirt cheap to service, with the VW ECU cheat software still in place is really fast (burns off most things from the traffic lights) and is worth almost nothing. In fact, being diesel, is worth less than nothing
And I can’t see this changing for at least 10-20 years. The issues with electricity capacity (total kW for the average street) are not going to go away, and that will limit broad adoption. I can see a lot of people getting a little plug-in runabout but they will keep a “normal car” as well, and that’s a hassle because there are 2 of you you will end up with 4 cars. Take an average family and they might need a little car park
I reckon the overall result will be that most people won’t go electric – unless they really never do longer drives.
As for GA going electric, that is much further away.
When I take a trip in a car, an average day is about 1100 km.
Not at all an outlier, completely normal in the US.
No, the average length of a car journey in the USA is about 6 miles. Average daily mileage is about 30 miles. I’m sure most people occasionally drive very long distances, but most journeys are much shorter.
