Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Anti N-reg provisions - EASA FCL and post-brexit UK FCL

Like many things I have difficulty getting my head around this.

Does this simply mean that UK based N-reg pilots are good until June 2021 even if the UK CAA does nothing?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

No, UK CAA must actively decide to make use of the derogation.

London, United Kingdom

But the UK CAA has already decided, and is committed in writing (CAP 1754) to:

• Only regulate directly when necessary and do so proportionately
Deregulate where we can and delegate where appropriate
• Do not gold plate and quickly and efficiently remove any gold plating that already exists

Since they can derogate, clearly they must have done so and just not got around to telling us yet.

Glenswinton, SW Scotland, United Kingdom

Has somebody a current list of countries who have opted out from EASA / EU 1178/2011 / 965/2012? I only know about the excel on https://www.easa.europa.eu/document-library/regulations/opt-out-from-regulations – which states that Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy and Luxemburg have opted out. The others are marked with “No information” or “Not applicable”.

So, who know to which EU countries you can currently fly to with an N-Reg and a valid FAA IR as a EU resident?

(The latest update from Germany is in NfL 1-1575-19, valid until June, 20th 2020).

Last Edited by BerlinFlyer at 26 Mar 12:48
Germany

Post moved to existing thread on this topic, @BerlinFlyer.

I think that, apart from the current virus business, this is being left until the 11th hour as always.

Isn’t everything in that URL out of date, going back to early 2019?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Thanks, @peter. Yes, it’s amazing how easy it is to find out how to stay legal.

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
Germany

Yes, exactly

Here is more amusement.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

BerlinFlyer wrote:

So, who know to which EU countries you can currently fly to with an N-Reg and a valid FAA IR as a EU resident?

I know there isn’t universal agreement on this, but my interpretation is that derogation only needs to be made by the country where you reside. If it has made the derogation then you can fly in any EASA-land. As far as I know there has been no legal interpretation of the law, and I think it’s better to let sleeping dogs lay.

I’ve been flying on that basis ever since the regulation was passed and the derogations implemented without ever any question (10 years?). I haven’t heard of anyone being subject to a country trying to apply something else, and I don’t think any country is actively trying to enforce that particular regulation anyway. If any country tries to apply any other interpretation, I’ll challenge them on it.

LSZK, Switzerland

This interpretation would lead to lots of more questions and to absurd results for many cases.

First of all, it would be completely against EU principles that a german resident with is allowed to fly in German airspace with FAA license only while Germany prevents a Spanish with the very same license to do so because Spain has not derogated.
More fundamentally: Germany is not in the position to allow or forbid anyone to do something in the Spanish airspace. So even if Germany derogated, they can‘t allow someone to fly in Spanish airspace by that.

Amongst the absurd situation would be, that for a Spanish resident it would be illegal to fly from Barcelona to Madrid with FAA-license only while in your interpretation it would be completely ok to do the same flight as a German resident.

Questions of your interpretation include: What does that „reside“ mean? What if you „reside“ in more than 1 member state (if one derogated and one not)? What if you move from a member state that derogated into one that did not (leading in your interpretation to the situation that you are allowed to fly into your new home but from there you must „never“ fly out again).

Altogether: No! Derogation means that you are allowed to fly an n-reg plane with „FAA-license only“ in the airspace of that country. Doesn‘t matter in which country you reside.

Germany

I believe EASA was asked to clarify, and refused. @bookworm will know more, if he’s still about.

I am with chflyer’s interpretation, because the other one – while appearing to be more logical in terms of national sovereignity arguments – is unworkable, on the grounds that ICAO supposedly allows worldwide flight (subject to the country of license issue matching the aircraft reg, blah blah) but half the countries in Europe cannot even find EASA regs let alone work out what they mean, so have not bothered to derogate, IMHO because they think the whole thing is bizzare. And EASA supports this FUD by refusing the clarify it.

And enforcement is not possible for overflying aircraft. It thus has to work on where the pilot is based. But none of these terms have been defined. Gigabytes of forum bandwidth have been used up discussing this very topic, but bandwidth is cheap nowadays; EuroGA has an allowance of 3TB/m but is using under 200GB

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top