Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Welcome to our forums

Ground station insisting on traffic pattern upon landing

Well, next time when I’m there, I’ll know.

When I think it is convenient to fly a straight in approach (overall it means less time in the air than flying around a traffic pattern and therefore less noise footprint) I ask for it when establishing first contact. On many occasions they do not object. And otherwise, a friendly question usually prompts a friendly answer like “sorry, but due to frequent noise complaints we can not encourage staight in approaches from the west”. Of course, from a strictly legal point of view you can just fly as you like as long as you don’t endanger other traffic, but what benefit will it have when operating restrictions will be imposed onto one airfield after another due to noise complaints?

EDDS - Stuttgart

EDHE is my home base where I also did my training and it was always considered a deadly sin to make a long final for 09 or fly straight ahead after take off. Runway 09 is especially sensitive, as there are quite a few houses nearby. We even have markers on the ground (!!!) showing the pilots where to turn and which points not to overfly. All thanks to resident initiatives. What I always wonder, why do you move next to an airfield and then complain about it? I would understand if you were there first but according to this logic the people complaining must be at least 80 years old.
The informatoin service at EDHE is indeed very…. lets say casual. I think this is mainly due to the fact that there are not that many visitors coming to EDHE but mainly local pilots and flight schools flying from there.

EDDH, Germany

I agree it is high too in the other joins, but in the OHJ it seems worse because you are going round and round, and say there are 5 others doing the same, you will see at most 1 or 2 of them. Yet they will all be at roughly your height, etc.

Maybe we mean different things with “overhead join”. My understanding of that is not circling overhead the airport, but overflying the airport above circuit height, then descending into the traffic circuit, typically on the upwind or crosswind leg.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
The cited parts of the LuftVO are really just common sense, though (the following is a very rough translation):

2 – Follow the instructions received from the “Flugleiter” (here: Luftaufsicht) and the aerodrome operator

What does “instruction” mean here? Surely the Luftaufsicht can’t instruct you to follow a specific track or level, to land/take-off or not land/take-off? That would be controlling the flight!

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

EDHE is my home base where I also did my training and it was always considered a deadly sin to make a long final for 09 or fly straight ahead after take off

I understand the local situation but if flying in many different countries I noticed that this is a very German thing. For example in the US at some places they fly traffic patterns low over houses, even 24/7 and that not with a C152 but anything up to a P51. People will watch the aircraft and enjoy the “airshow”. German would complain about the noise…

So if you come from such a different environment it is difficult to adapt to the German situation. You simply have no feeling a procedure could be “bad”. Fly over houses on approach, so what? That is why we have EuroGA so we can learn how things work in different places.

Last Edited by Sebastian_G at 17 Sep 14:06

that this is a very German situation…

I’m afraid not. In my 25 years of powered flight I have been reported officially twice for violating noise abatement rules. One was during an approach to Nice (the “Riviera Approach” as it was called then, now it is officially called “VPT A Rwy 04L/R (after VOR)”) when we took a turn too wide and just bareley overflew a little bit of Cap D’Antibes. The other was at Madrid. In Germany, I got told off quite a few times for not strictly observing their pattern (which can be quite difficult when instructing single-engine work on piston twins) but never reported.

The difference between Germany and other countries is that here they do their best to prevent you from making mistakes by putting a lot of smallprint on the approach plates and telling you off over the radio whereas in other countries they will watch silently while you commit your violation and report you immediately afterwards: “callsign 421, you have just overflown a noise monitoring point, I have to report you for that” – Why on earth couldn’t he have said: “callsign 421, you are about to overfly a noise sensitive area, suggest you turn 20 degrees to the left!”.

EDDS - Stuttgart

People will watch the aircraft and enjoy the “airshow”. German would complain about the noise…

This is a sad fact indeed. The same goes for racetracks, off road parks and so on.

EDDH, Germany

The Flugleiter’s rudeness aside, assume his instructions are for the greater good. This whole noise issue is a big threat to all GA airfields. If you want to to fly a non standard pattern at an unfamiliar aerodrome, make sure the Flugleiter agrees. We have the very same thing at our airfield and our Flugleiters take great care explaining to non local pilots how to fly, especially on Sunday.

38 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top