Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

RNAV /PBN Even Eurocontrol confused but deadline 15 Nov looming nonetheless

As of 15th November the new /PBN in field 18 of the flight plan is needed. Spoke to Eurocontrol helpdesk and even the guy there was confused. Just wanted to give you all headsup If you are filing R, P and G for RNAV because you have a GPS in your equipment code field that is no longer accepted and you need to file it as R only and then add to field 18 PBN/(add your spec here)example PBN/A1B2S1

There's a list of codes to be found here: http://www.rocketroute.com/blog/2012/08/2012-flight-plan-changes-equipment-codes/

Eurocontrol has some more info here: http://www.eurocontrol.int/sites/default/files/content/documents/nm/flight-planning/icao-2012/icao-2012-guidance-latest.pdf

Whatever tool your using to create and file your plans make sure you have this changed as they will start rejecting your IFR plan from 15th.

I presume this doesn't affect my VFR bimbles to Le Touquet

Is that true even if I have a G430 onboard?

EGBJ, United Kingdom

This stuff applies only to flight plans which have an IFR section (I Z or Y) and which involve "enroute IFR" in the Eurocontrol system.

All such flights need the full IR (because in the UK they take you into Class A, ignoring some rare contrived scenarios, and abroad you need the full IR for any IFR anyway).

If you specify "R" in the equipment list (e.g. SGRY/S) then the other stuff has to go into Box 18. If you get this wrong, Eurocontrol will reject the flight plan.

There is a document here which explains it fairly well. I hope you can download it, because the link to the PDF itself appears corrupted.

The interesting question is what exactly qualifies as "enroute IFR" (my expression entirely). Let's say you file Shoreham to Lydd, 4000ft, with an "I" flight plan. This happens to be entirely OCAS. Any "I" flight plan goes to Eurocontrol (IFPS) so potentially they might throw it out. And same if filing say Shoreham to Newquay at 4000ft, which crosses a little bit of CAS (Class D) near Southampton. This is not a "proper" Eurocontrol IFR flight

This stuff is another nail in the coffin of filing "I" in UK Class G, which has always been pointless for operational reasons, given that you can file "V" and change to IFR (entirely inside your head) at any time.

The exception might be JAA/EASA IR training / flight test flight plans, which tend to just briefly enter Class A (they like to hear you contact London Control) but which are often done in less well equipped aircraft. I suppose they will have to avoid using the "R" in the equipment list

For those with an IR, this is just a case of working out the stuff for Box 18 and sticking with it. It's a one-off job. What worries me more is possible mandatory-PRNAV enroute airspace, which would wipe out most of private IFR GA.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

For those with an IR, this is just a case of working out the stuff for Box 18 and sticking with it. It's a one-off job. What worries me more is possible mandatory-PRNAV enroute airspace, which would wipe out most of private IFR GA.

I would not worry too much on this, as most Jets are not even PRNAV equipped...:smile.

EBST

I would not worry too much on this, as most Jets are not even PRNAV equipped

Yes; indeed, as some bizjet pilot friends of mine tell me ("what is PRNAV; never heard of it").

Presently it works because airports with PRNAV SIDs and STARs ignore that at the ATC level (ATC doesn't generally care or even know what you put in the flight plan equipment list) and Eurocontrol doesn't enforce it by e.g. rejecting a flight plan to/from such airports.

If Eurocontrol enforced it, there would be mayhem, and they probably know that

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Having some insight what's ongoing on ATM level, I think the challenges are much more on different levels. Read this and you will understand....the Single Sky.

Am I right in thinking in box 10b instead of S for mode S you now put L

I spent all day yesterday trying to understand how to fill in Item 10 and 18 for the new flight plans. I think I've got it right but in the process it has raised some other issues: Firstly, my Cassna 182 has in the POH an approval for RNAV operation, it has two GNS430WAAS units and Garmin G500. The transponder is a GTX300ES (mode S with extended squitter). It seems then that my codes will be:

Item 10: SBDFGR/E

Item 18: PBN/B2S1 NAV/SBAS

The two issues raised are to do with the transponder and also RNAV.

Firstly the transponder (and Rob this answers your question potentially)There are 19 codes to choose from, as best I can tell (I'm awaiting confirmation) is my transponder code for 10b is E. E is for Mode S with aircraft ID, pressure altitude and extended squitter (ADS-B capability). The confirmation I need is does the existance of extended squitter actually give me ADS-B "out" capability - somehow I dont think so becasue ADS-B "out" requires in addition velocity, rate of climb/decent etc. I suspect there is another box required to disemminate this other stuff. So, for now I'm going with E.

Secondly, RNAV. My aicraft is N reg RNAV is in the POH. This give me B-RNAV approval which is the B2 in box 18. Stupidly, initially I thought I would be OK for P-RNAV because of my WAAS GPS's but the further in I got (courtesy of a pilot pal who was also confused) I understand that whilst the kit in my plane is capable of P-RNAV, I have not done the P-RNAV course, nor does my POH actually state P-RNAV it only states RNAV and nor have I prepared the P-RNAV checklist. If I did all this I could then get the FAA to approve the set up for P-RNAV. I knew none of this yesterday so if any or all is wrong dont shout at me please but I would like to know.

So, what will I do about P-RNAV, well nothing. B-RNAV will do everything I need for the forseeable future - I hope!!!

EGNS/Garey Airstrip, Isle of Man

I would not worry too much on this, as most Jets are not even PRNAV equipped

Actually, most newer jets are equipped. Crews are trained, too. Approvals are another issue though...

Just take a look at Stockholm Arlanda (ESSA) 10-3A Jeppessen. It gives a thumbs up for FMS/RNAV with RNP1 to use all RNAV procedures. Not B-RNAV though, clearly. Then there is Oslo... P-RNAV approval required at the top of the plates. Easier said than done on my aircraft registry. N Reg - easy, just an LOA.

@STOLman: you can specify less capability than you have as long as it is sufficient capability for the airspace you are planning to enter. Eurocontrol tells you whether it's sufficient by rejecting or accepting the flight plan.

Here's what I use for a GNS430W and Mode S transponder equipped aircraft (using RocketRoute's interface):

19 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top