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Winter operations / lowest temperature for starting / preheating methods (merged)

Airborne_Again wrote:

The shop failed to do so, despite saying that they did and even signing off the installation on the work order!

Whoaa! Don’t we all love these kind of stories

Dan
ain't the Destination, but the Journey
LSZF, Switzerland

Airborne_Again wrote:

Some years ago, a workshop was tasked with installing an electric oil sump heater in one of hour aircraft after an engine overhaul. (The heater is glued to the engine and can’t be removed for overhaul without damaging it.) The shop failed to do so, despite saying that they did and even signing off the installation on the work order!

@Airborne_Again, what were the consequences for the shop?

EGTR

When it was taken apart all cylinders showed damage which was arguably caused by repeated cold starting

What did they find, and what oil was the plane using?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

What did they find, and what oil was the plane using?

I have pictures of it somewhere… The plane was using either Aeroshell W80+ or Total XPD80 – the same oils that we’ve always used and that all our other aircraft use.

What’s notable is that we had operated the aircraft in exactly the same way in 10 years or so before the engine overhaul and the overhaul shop reported the engine to “actually be in good condition” at the time of overhaul even though it had accumulated 3400 hours. (It was on an owner declared AMP so on condition indefinitely. The overhaul was done because people got nervous, not because of any indications of trouble or wear.) Then after overhaul it was used a single winter season without the heater and then damaged. (Btw: The overhaul was done by Nicholson-McLaren in the UK.)

Fortunately as the insurance company paid for the shock load inspection all we had to pay for was the actual replacement of damaged parts which did not cost a lot.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Airborne_Again wrote:

Then after overhaul it was used a single winter season without the heater and then damaged

The rule of thumb that I’ve heard is that one cold start of an engine below 0°C without preheat is equivalent to about 500hr of normal cruise flight, as far as wear is concerned. Mike Busch claims that most engine wear occurs during the first 30 seconds after start in any case regardless of temp…. and oil pressure is not sufficient to prevent cold start damage. Problem is differing adjacent metal expansion rates (piston vs cylinder, crankshaft vs bearings).

LSZK, Switzerland

I have one of these, with an old iphone with a data package acting as a wifi hotspot, to power a couple of little ceramic heaters I stuff into the bottom of the cowl.

https://www.tapo.com/en/product/smart-plug/tapo-p100/

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07K3XDNB1

This gets me up to 15c or warmer if I turn it on the night before.

If you don’t have power in the hangar, I’ll bet one of these portable power stations might work for you:

https://www.digitec.ch/en/s1/producttype/portable-power-stations-3557

Expensive, but cheaper than a new engine!

Fly more.
LSGY, Switzerland

talking about engine pre-heat, I’m lucky enough to be in a heated hangar, OAT -1°C right now and 18°C in the hangar

Anyway, before this luxury, I made this little unit housing a ceramic type heater. Used on the different airplanes I owned anytime the OAT was < 5°C. One hour use brought the oil T to around 75°F, along with the cylinders and accessories.
Gave it away to a buddy of mine now using it on his RV-14, remote controlled from his home via his cell phone.

Dan
ain't the Destination, but the Journey
LSZF, Switzerland

Threads merged.

There is a lot of good advice in this thread.

Sadly Europe lags way behind the US when it comes to facilities for winter operations.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

arj1 wrote:

what were the consequences for the shop?

When we discovered this we were already in process of abandoning the shop because of price increases and poor service. The short story is we had been reasonably happy with the shop until it was bought and merged with a neighbouring shop associated with a major commercial flight school. After that it went downhill fast and it was clear that the new owners really wanted to get rid of us. (I could tell you some stories.)

In the end we decided to not try to recover damages, The burden of proof that the engine damage was caused by lack of preheating would be on us and the shop would certainly argue that we should have discovered the missing heater much earlier. Also, because the damage was discovered and fixed while the engine was on an unrelated shock load inspection the cost of fixing it was low.

A bit of consolation is that the shop got its license revoked by the Swedish CAA last year! Also the associated flight school had a contract with the Swedish government for providing state-supported ATPL training. That was also cancelled last year for breach of contract on the part of the flight school…

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 19 Jan 08:08
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Has anybody tried any of Tanis products like this one?

LDZA LDVA, Croatia
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