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Can one do a JAA initial IR test in a plane with no ADF?

Another pilot asked me this. I wrote to someone in the CAA but thus far I have not had a reply.

My view is that since the IR examiner can freely choose any of these 3 nonprecision approaches

NDB
VOR
GPS

then he could choose the NDB one and you are screwed if you can't fly it.

Traditionally, the CAA Standards Document 7A laid down the requirements and that does require an ADF

3.2.9 Section 4 - Specific Radio Equipment Requirements for the IR Skill Test
a. For all tests for the initial issue of the IR, the minimum radio equipment must include the following:
2 x VHF Comms. Radios
1 x VOR / ILS Receiver with Glideslope
1 x 75 Mhz Marker Beacon Receiver
1 x DME
1 x ADF
1 x Transponder with Mode C

However, a couple of things have happened since:

1) The ADF is no longer mandatory for IFR enroute in CAS (UK)
2) I read somewhere that Standards Doc 7A is no longer valid under EASA FCL

On a more practical note, the majority of Cirruses sold into Europe never had an ADF (or DME) installed and is it really the case that they can't be used for JAA IR training and tests?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

My understanding (discussion with IR examiner heavily involved with GPS/LPV) is that the only single needle requirement in the IRT is for a hold using a single needle presentation, which can just as easily be done using a VOR. The quote is:

"A holding pattern will be required in either normal or asymmetric aeroplane configuration. The holding pattern should be conducted using a 'needle' instrument presentation from either an NDB or a VOR."

On a glass cockpit aircraft this is easily done, however if you do not have an RMI on a non-glass aircraft then it would be hard to fulfil this requirement (Standards Doc 1 3.6.13).

London area

Peter, how about a localiser-only approach for the non-precision requirement?

Josh, why should the holding pattern/needle presentation be any easier than a non-glass a/c, and why do you need a RMI? Sure, nice to have, but no means essential, surely?

And if you don't practice without a RMI, then you're up the creek with a related failure on the test, when you'd be expected to fly it - no excuses.

how about a localiser-only approach for the non-precision requirement?

It ought to be permitted but are there any in the UK?

I certainly can't think of any on the south. And there is no way (normally) to disable the ILS indication in the aircraft.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

It ought to be permitted but are there any in the UK?

Cambridge has a spearate Localiser/DME/NDB approach

This is in addition to SRA, ILS and GPS approaches

I think that Exeter EGTE has a LOC DME approach for Rw26

I was asked to do a localiser only approach on my checkride. The DPE just covered the No1 VOR, with GS indicator and so left available only the No2 VOR, without GS. Not much use though if both VORs have GS indication!

TJ
Cambridge EGSC

I don't mean that flying the procedure is any different in a glass/non-glass aircraft, merely in terms of actually displaying it on the PFD or whatever - on the G1000 (which is the only glass I really know much about) one can display an RMI type needle on the HSI and I assume (always dangerous) that this is similarly possible on other forms of glass.

If one is required to do a single needle hold, and one does not have an ADF (RBI or whatever) in an analogue cockpit, surely an RMI is required to display the VOR in a single needle format. To be fair, I've never seen an RMI that doesn't display both VOR and ADF, but in the case of an INOP ADF for example would only be displaying VOR information.

London area

Yes, sorry, Josh - I was just thinking of an ADF.

There is no such thing as a JAA IR test any more.

FTOs are no longer required to have aircraft approved to Doc 7 by the CAA IN-2012/068

Standards Doc 7 still exists and in Para 3.2.7a lists the equipment required for an EASA IR initial Skill Test which includes a single ADF.

It is the FTO/ATOs responsibility to ensure the aircraft is suitably equipped.

See:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/224/IR%20conversions%20PPLIR%20Europe.pdf

Does this categorically state that ADFs are no longer required for the Instrument checkride?

Assuming so, is the ADF now officially dead for practical purposes? How long before the ATOs accept this fact?

Q10 If the route chosen by the examiner requires the use of equipment which is not
fitted to my aircraft (e.g. ADF, DME) can I request an alternate route?

A Yes. The examiner will select an appropriate route such that the requirements of the
Skills Test may be met, based on weather and accessible training airfields and your
aircraft equipment. Note that without DME, an appropriate route may not be available
that complies with these requirements. Without an ADF, the route may be a longer one
than otherwise

Last Edited by DMEarc at 17 Jun 13:16
26 Posts
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