Arun wrote:
appears a total hit/miss situation, working for some and not for others.
I have now tried with various emails and business/personal bank accounts, still no luck.
I tried to apply for the card again today and got to the blank page when it came to paying the deposit by a credit card.
I decided to contact the customer service using the ‘contact us’ menu on the top of the page. To my total surprise, someone responded to me and after a few email exchanges, my application seems to be through. I have been told to expect my card in the next few days. I will report when it arrives.
Peter wrote:
This is why in the UK we have same price roaming over a vast area of Europe; anything less would be seen as a ripoff.
This is a consequence of pre-Brexit EU agreement on no-roaming fees within EU which continued to be in power as mutual agreement between UK and EU.
OK, fair enough, but TOTAL are basically making money on the back of the restrictive practices in the French credit card system.
It’s a bit like mobile data; I recall about 10 years ago this was very expensive in France and people traveling out of there often turned off data roaming due to the cost.
a nice man from Total would visit regularly to check our installation, and guarantee/certify it and the fuel was to the required French “norm”
TOTAL is taking on a legal liability there and it clearly suits both parties 
because TOTAL gets a lot of nice warm PR which costs them nothing, and the aeroclub thinks they are delivering a great service which they could not do without.
Eventually this will all change but might take 20 years. What drives change is people travelling and seeing other countries. This is why in the UK we have same price roaming over a vast area of Europe; anything less would be seen as a ripoff.
I should also point out that you pay a costly annual fee for many credit cards in France so a club with several aircraft would need a number of cards and pay something like €50 a year for each card, whereas the Total cards are free from fees.
I’m just telling you why Total Automates are popular here…
I’m pretty sure Total’s liability ends when they deliver the fuel to the site. If there is contamination or a leak, their terms are going to place responsibility for that firmly on the airfield.
I can only comment that our aeroclub had a contract with Total for fuel for many (20+) years without an Automate, and as part of that contract, a nice man from Total would visit regularly to check our installation, and guarantee/certify it and the fuel was to the required French “norm”, with one of our club members volunteering to do the (bi-weekly?) checks they then audit. One day just after Covid, the nice man said “you have a potential problem with xxx” and told us they could no longer guarantee/certify us providing their fuel, so we needed to get additional insurance cover to provide provide fuel, which we did on a limited basis.
Around the same time, seperate internal aeroclub change & politics issues and marie political change of mayor occurred, such that the Marie decided to take over the running of the aerodrome and promptly shut down the fuel installation last year as they didn’t want the liability or hassle.
Because of this situation, our aeroclub knows from experience that the Total Card system is alot less hassle than individual receipts. And I have seen Total chaps checking fuel and the Automate installation just like thdy used to at our club on our neighbouring aerodrome where we now generally fill up…No doubt there are other solutions we could use at our club, but Total cards in each aeroplane work for us, and we have no complaints so far.
Regards, SD..
Skydriller makes a very good point about the aeroclub environment and fuel.
We used to have an 100LL pump provided by Total but not self service.
Total sold and delivered the fuel. The club were responsible for ordering it and doing regular testing of things like specific gravity. The club paid for all the fuel and does not take credit cards so would only sell to travellers by cash or a French cheque.The Mairie received €0.10 on every litre sold. The cost of installing a pump which took, even just a Total card was much to high for the club and the town hall.
When a reservoir started to leak we had to stop selling Avgas as the demand for it had decreased dramatically and the cost of replacing the reservoir would have been far too high to ever pay for itself.
Nowadays pilots needing Avgas make a special private arrangement with one of the onfield maintenance companies. That means prior agreement with someone at the maintenance company to be there, payment in cash or French cheque much like it was with the club but more restrictive in hours of availability.
So whilst I agree totally with what skydriller has written it should be possible at airfields which sell enough Avgas to make it economically viable to install pumps which take any credit card.
skydriller wrote:
The French Total/Automate system works extremely well for French aeroclubs and their pilots, which are the majority in France, obviously…. Often the based aeroclub, which is run by volunteers remember, runs the airfield on behalf of the local marie which owns the airfield. With a total automate installed, no one needs to be at the aerodrome to provide fuel, but its available for all, and has Total assurance of quality so there is no aeroclub liability. Plus it is so much easier for an aeroclub to have a card with every aeroplane and one bill every month, than have to work out the receipts for individual pilots credit card purchases…
No-one needs to be at the aerodrome to provide fuel if you just have a credit card terminal either.
It’s only “available for all” if you define all as those who are prepared to set up an account with a large company that they would prefer to have no relationship with, as well as providing that company with a cashflow subsidy by keeping a positive balance on the account.
I’m pretty sure Total’s liability ends when they deliver the fuel to the site. If there is contamination or a leak, their terms are going to place responsibility for that firmly on the airfield.
There’s no reason each aeroplane can’t just have it’s own credit card rather than a Total card. This is done everywhere with fleets of vehicles that are treated as a pool rather than being assigned to a particular user.
I’m with @Dan here, they simply don’t get my custom. The idea that in order to buy fuel I have to sign up to their proprietary payment method and provide them with a cashflow subsidy is beyond absurd. The ‘marie-owned airfield’ system is nice in terms of infrastructure provision but probably helps prop up the Total racket because no-one cares whether there is any traffic. If a GA airfield in the UK became Total card only then it would be deserted overnight… the market is good for some things.
has Total assurance of quality so there is no aeroclub liability.
I hope nobody actually says that bit with a straight face
Plus it is so much easier for an aeroclub to have a card with every aeroplane and one bill every month, than have to work out the receipts for individual pilots credit card purchases
Isn’t that a bit like what kept AMEX in business long after most shops stopped accepting AMEX? It’s a fair point but it could be implemented with any credit card.
I think the real reason why TOTAL push for a monopoly is that they keep the payment commission to themselves. They are not exactly a nice company when you look at how they were giving away bowsers (in the UK) to anybody willing to carry their 91UL, in a push to stop airports carrying 100LL, which fortunately most airports were not stupid enough to do. Carrying two fuels would reduce their purchasing and reduce their margins.
@Dan, my feathers arent ruffled, but there is an alternate point of view :
The French Total/Automate system works extremely well for French aeroclubs and their pilots, which are the majority in France, obviously…. Often the based aeroclub, which is run by volunteers remember, runs the airfield on behalf of the local marie which owns the airfield. With a total automate installed, no one needs to be at the aerodrome to provide fuel, but its available for all, and has Total assurance of quality so there is no aeroclub liability. Plus it is so much easier for an aeroclub to have a card with every aeroplane and one bill every month, than have to work out the receipts for individual pilots credit card purchases…
Regards, SD..
I think Poitiers LFBI is also a Total card pump for avgas and C+I albeit with PN.
Like Dan I too wish more airfields had mogas and any credit card pumps.
