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Aircraft VAT / import VAT / getting busted upon landing in the EU (merged thread)

Do those relate to Czech specifically, or having an EU passport when you have a UK one?

The latter.

Actually, having posted the above, I am now struggling in my enquiries to find a credible scenario where citizenship is relevant. To the requirement to have a Cert of Free circ – no. To the suspicion as to whether or not you may need one, probably

I think having the country passport may put you in import case in the eyes of a customs officer

Exactly But it doesn’t mean anything in itself – if you can afford a good lawyer.

You don’t need a PhD to work out that, post brexit, it will make more sense for a UK based pilot to show a UK passport than to show an EU one.

I was going to get the CZ one at some point because it avoids the hassles at renewal time (travelling to London and handing over a lot of money, to get the same day renewal service). OTOH my life expectancy is probably no more than 2 more renewals

Interesting (above PDF link) that planes get 6 months while boats get 18 months. Is that because boats are slower, or is it because more politicians (or well connected gangsters) own them?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Interesting. I tend to use the local passport when enter / leave FR/UK (I leave the PT at the office, where it can be sent very fast to me if am stuck somewhere having all other IDs stolen), as I always think it’s more likely to convey a bit more sympathy, in case you have an unusual request to ask them.

I can see how the inverse could be helpful, if you get a little hitler somewhere, but I always try to draw sympathy first, precisely to avoid the little hitlers :)

Last Edited by Noe at 30 Oct 16:25

Most countries have a law that if you have their nationality, then you should use that country’s passport when entering the country.

Last Edited by Rwy20 at 30 Oct 17:25

Peter wrote:

Is that because boats are slower, or is it because more politicians (or well connected gangsters) own them?

Yes it will take 6 months to go Ireland to Greece sailing 4h/day at 5kts or maybe the rules are for these guys:
https://www.mundycruising.co.uk/cruises/146-day-world-cruise-extraordinary-destinations/170384

A diplomat passport will get you through borders but not customs, tough we know how it works in practice

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Most countries have a law that if you have their nationality, then you should use that country’s passport when entering the country.

Is there a list?

The UK does not care. South Africa does, sort of…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

To be fair, I most of the time don’t show the passport i filed, because I use my PT I card which is credit card size. The passport stays in the bag , and it’s never been an issue.

Ibra wrote:

Yes it will take 6 months to go Ireland to Greece sailing 4h/day at 5kts or maybe the rules are for these guys:

If you’re sailing from Ireland to Greece you don’t sail 4 hours a day. You sail 24 hours a day unless you fancy stopping somewhere nice. You don’t just heave to in the middle of the ocean for a rest – you still have to keep a lookout so you might as well be making forward progress.

EGLM & EGTN

I wonder how this will work for me? The EU (and all its predecessors) simply didn’t exist in 1945 when my plane was first purchased. VAT didn’t exist then either, and AFAIK, VAT has never been paid on the aircraft, because it’s never been applicable (although VAT has been paid on parts since then, of course). The aircraft has never been outside what would eventually become the EU (it’s hardly ever been outside of UK/Eire, only the odd trip to France AFAIK). Of course I can show the entire ownership record as it’s available from G-INFO. I’m also not an EU resident, even if the aircraft (well, at least for the time being) is on an EU register (G).

Last Edited by alioth at 02 Nov 14:27
Andreas IOM

There was a VAT amnesty in the 1980s, whereby if you could prove continuous UK residence for the aircraft, prior to a specific date, it was assumed to be VAT paid. I have just spent a while searching for it, because there are a lot of threads here which mention it, but anything useful on google leads either back to EuroGA or to other references which were all inconclusive. I believe it to be real because I clearly remember the details of it having been posted somewhere… unless that information was made up on the spot, which is possible

This guy will no doubt know the relevant date. However, I know somebody who tried to get a certificate of free circulation (for a plane imported into the UK in the 1980s) via him about 10 years ago and was told this is no longer possible, because UK Customs don’t keep records far enough. I got my CofFC via him in 2005 and the route used closed shortly after that.

So while you are no doubt fine as far as getting busted for import VAT in the UK is concerned, there appears to be no route for getting the CofFC document which is what the police in certain countries want to see.

@AlanB here is known to me and he references an EU regulation which has the same effect as a UK amnesty but may be more useful if you got busted outside the UK.

There always remains a (unattractive) route for obtaining the CofFC: you declare the aircraft for VAT and pay the VAT I also heard, some years ago, an outfit called Opmas (the Danish lawyer who used to run the zero-VAT route and made a sh*tload of €€€ out of it) may have a solution. This may also be of interest.

Personally, I would not worry about it IF I had all the records proving the aircraft was in the EU since the 1980s.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

fyi reference Peter’s comments above…. The reply I had from HMRC at the time, when we were rebuilding a damaged G reg and transfering to the N reg.

Sir

Firstly apologies for not replying to the first email – I’m sure you’ve heard excuses before but we run an automated programme of the General Aviation Reports and it got caught up in them and misfiled.

As you will se from my ‘signature’ I am no longer part of HMRC so can only comment as an ex Customs Officer, as policy is still administered by HMRC.

In my experience the French only look for evidence of VAT payment on import. In your case the aircraft has been in continual EU ownership for a long period, and as you say qualifies as having VAT paid status by virtue of the E.E.C. Council Directive 92/111, part of the Sixth Directive, Article 28N- Transitional measures, which you have correctly stated the conditions that apply. The VAT payable on the rebuild is different as that is paid on supplies and services provided in the UK, in the same way as if you were buying parts or accessories for an already airworthy aircraft ( a respray or engine parts for example). This VAT would be accounted for by the supplier. There is no reason to ‘re-import’ the aircraft as the VAT status of the airframe is unchanged from before it’s crash and therefore is still considered VAT paid. In my experience a copy of the CAA register print out, together with the new US registration document (which should tie in with the de-registration date) is enough evidence to prove the aircraft’s status in this situation. HMRC no longer issue Free Circulation Certificates as they had no legal standing within the Community, and it is highly unlikely that they will supply any paperwork to confirm the VAT status, other than probably similar comments to mine above. As I said above I cannot foresee any problems as you have enough evidence to show the aircraft’s history within the EU, the crash being only incidental to its VAT status.

If you require any clarification by all means come back to me and I will try an answer any further questions.

Regards

REDACTED
GA Intelligence Officer
Border Force National Intelligence Air ~ Intelligence & National Operations

UK Border Agency
Room 13A, Custom House, The Terrace, Gravesend. DA12 2BW

Tel: +44 (0)1375 853030 / +44 (0)1959 575747
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EGHS
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