France, for sure. One small problem with that is they keep your original VAT receipt, so you don’t get it back.
That’s really interesting.
Presumably this means an F-reg will never get checked for VAT
Also checking Socatas for VAT would be low productivity fishing because there is no import VAT due unless formally exported out of the EU at some stage. Actually there is a real problem there: how do you prove a lack of export? Only with flight logs showing constant EU residence – that is also required under the UK VAT amnesty. I can’t find the details of that amnesty right now but wrote this some years ago at another place, based on what I was told by some VAT consultant:
Owners of an N-reg which used to be on G-reg, or who want to transfer their aircraft from G-Reg to N-Reg, should do the following:
Write to the National Coordination Unit (ncu @ hmrc.gsi.gov.uk) or write to general GA matters department at HMRC (GACOPE @ hmrc.gsi.gov.uk). Both departments do reply to emails. One owner who did this received the following reply:
“Free Circulation Certificates have not been issued by this Department for a number of years as they have no legal standing within the EU. There was a ruling made that any aircraft that was registered pre 1985 and was in continuous EU ownership up to 1/1/1993 would be considered as VAT paid. If you are still worried I would suggest you take a printout of the registration history from G-INFO which confirms the aircraft’s age and ownerships over that period of time.”
The text above is from one of the email replies received from the GA Intelligence Officer, Border Force National Intelligence, Air Intelligence & National Operations. The aircraft owner should carry a copy of the email trail with the UK Border Agency and a print out of G-INFO which proves ownership from first day on which the aircraft left the G-Reg.
For aircraft’s where this rule is not applicable no information about what needs to be done could be obtained.
For “vintage” aircraft like e.g. a Cessna 310 it seems to be very easy to prove VAT paid status if it was registered in the EU before 1985 and in EU ownership until 1/1/1993.
Regarding the need to do a full import when an aircraft is moved onto the N-Reg, the reply was:
“There is no problem with re-registering the aircraft on to the US register – the same conditions would apply regarding dates and ownership, so as long as you (or an EU resident) remain the beneficial owner, there would be no requirement to ’import ’ the aircraft.”
I don’t know any Socata owner with a C88/IM4 and apparently such a thing is impossible because the aircraft was never imported. It entered the EU under an internal transfer arrangement. So these people have three options:
And presumably the same for Robins, etc.
We had a very similar thread here
BTW Flyer59 there are loads of hits on google (have to use google.co.uk, not e.g. google.de which will not dig out much English stuff) on non-N-regs getting checked in certain countries, although nobody can tell whether they were looking for VAT docs specifically.
Yes, ramp checks happen. I know that, and it’s ok too.
But please, if you find a check for VAT paid on a EU reg. a/c, let me know. (this thread is about VAT)
Gone Flying now :-)
My L18C came over as part of he Cold War MDAP in 1951, not sure who might issue a free circulation certificate? NATO?
Peter wrote:
Which countries check import VAT paid before allowing an aircraft onto their registry?
That’s a good question actually. Why do the government see a need to register aircraft in the first place? I can think of only two reasons.
With VAT in the first place, those two things are linked, at least for the end private user. But VAT isn’t a very old “invention” and several services and goods have been exempt, such as aviation typically (not anymore though).
Peter wrote:
That’s really interesting.Presumably this means an F-reg will never get checked for VAT
That’s correct . For an ex-French reg’d plane on N reg, the French customs agents advised me to always carry the old French AW Cert on-board to prove that the plane was regularly imported and registered in France, thus providing proof that VAT was indeed paid.
Flyer59 wrote:
For € 25.000 per month I can for the hangar. And I love the seal!
Sounds like a great business model :-)
Well I think you made a decimal error: it’s 1% per month, not 10% …
@ Michael You wrote it’s 10 percent!
But € 2500 per month … still a very good interest rate of 12 percent
I’d buy many airplanes and park them in France!
In my experience the French only look for evidence of VAT payment on import. In your case the aircraft has been in continual EU ownership for a long period, and as you say qualifies as having VAT paid status by virtue of the E.E.C. Council Directive 92/111, part of the Sixth Directive, Article 28N- Transitional measures, which you have correctly stated the conditions that apply.
In my experience a copy of the CAA register print out, together with the new US registration document (which should tie in with the de-registration date) is enough evidence to prove the aircraft’s status in this situation.
HMRC no longer issue Free Circulation Certificates as they had no legal standing within the Community, and it is highly unlikely that they will supply any paperwork to confirm the VAT status, other than probably similar comments to mine above.
I carry a copy of the E.E.C. Council Directive 92/111, part of the Sixth Directive, Article 28N- Transitional measures (relevant part only as it is bit long winded) together with a copy of this email. Actually I made an official “certificate” stating that the aeroplane qualifies as having VAT paid due to the EEC….blah. I have translated this into French too ;)
Our second aeroplane has a COFC.
Question: i imported an aircraft in 2008 in denmark from the States.
I have a C88 regarding that import. Now the aircraft is on a norvegian registry.
Let’s say I want to put it on German registry because I am going to sell it to a german client. Would he need to pay german VAT in order to register it?
Thx lowandslow
How long was it sitting in Norway and was it ever formally exported there?
Changing the reg doesn’t ever (AFAIK) cause an “export” for tax reasons.