I think flying in Europe is like voluntary Russian Roulette. You know you’ll get shot for something at some point, and you’re really trying your best to figure out when the chamber will be loaded, but it’s all a bit neurotic.
:D
That sums it up nicely. But the main question is, do you still want to take these incalculable risks or is it simply time to hang it all up. A 25 k fine because I have not read some small print on an obscure website or somewhere else for a simple landing at an airport whose employees are incapable of giving correct information is an insecurity which tempt me to put Germany on my ever expanding no-fly list. Which obviously in the end means to hang it all up. Which of course is what the goal of many of these things are.
As the Khasi of Kalabah once said:“There is no mountain high enough from which to adequately express my contempt.”
From here
So… how does e.g. a German flying an N-reg land in Germany with it? He must have a Certificate of Free Circulation for VAT, or a C88, perhaps? But most planes don’t have these documents (many previous threads). The owners could dig up some evidence that VAT was paid on it, perhaps… Some cannot find any evidence at all.
This stuff was never enforced in the UK. You could import an N-reg and just keep it in the UK. The danger was when you landed elsewhere, with France, Italy and Germany being occasionally reported for ramp checks focusing on N-regs. Every N-reg owner (except those with the paperwork) was and still is avoiding Biarritz because there is a school for Customs officers there.
Do Germans (and all the residents of the other EU countries) somehow magically manage to acquire the proof of EU VAT paid for their planes, while most people have so much trouble with this?
Peter wrote:
So… how does e.g. a German flying an N-reg land in Germany with it? He must have a Certificate of Free Circulation for VAT, or a C88, perhaps? But most planes don’t have these documents (many previous threads)
Yes, you need a proof that Import VAT (and potentially tariffs) have been paid for this plane. You not necessarily need to carry that around with the plane but be able to present it to customs office at some point in time when requested.
Every N-reg “owner” in Germany I know has this proof – it may easily be the most valuable individual slip of paper they posess.
The challenge in such discussions often is, that so many different cases get mixed up: From planes that really have been smuggled into the union because VAT was never paid to unfortunate fellows which did fail to declare properly and have to pay VAT although they never intended to import the plane there is a broad spectrum of cases.
And yes, there are also cases of the “naive” buyers of a 200k n-reg plane who forgot to ask the seller for the 40k slip of paper that proves that VAT has been paid properly…
That’s exactly been my view for many years.
Which documents are regarded in Germany as being acceptable, @Malibuflyer?
This has popped up: a UK Govt website for obtaining a C88
Whether it can be used to get a C88 for an aircraft, many years after the import, I doubt…
There is some interesting information here local copy about the procedure of release for free circulation. More detail is also given on the customs declaration under the second heading.
I’m not convinced of the value for a Swiss or UK resident with a locally VAT-paid aircraft to pay the EU VAT and obtaining a release for free circulation. See the last paragraph on the above link:
goods released for free circulation, like goods made in the Union, may lose their status as Union goods.
As also indicated above, there are ways to prevent the loss of EU goods status when leaving the EU customs union (for example returning to Switzerland or the UK after a trip), but this would involve additional research.
Yes; that article is AFAIK accurate in that even if you go to your Customs office with your plane, worth 200k, and give them 40k, and they give you a cert of free circ, and then the plane spends 3 years (or whatever it is) outside the EU, it will lose its status, and you will have to go back to the Customs office and give them another 40k to get another cert of free circ 
Does Switzerland have some sort of VAT treaty with the EU, so that e.g. you can get a Swiss issued cert of free circ, and this is valid in the EU? Obviously the same issue may apply to pilots based in post-brexit UK, depending on what deals are done between London and Brussels.
If it does not, then a Swiss resident is relying purely on the “visitation” concession, and that is how international aviation works everywhere. You must not stay in the EU for more than 6 months (?) and as was highlighted in this German case you must arrive via an active Customs checkpoint. If you do not arrive via an active Customs checkpoint, all this goes out of the window and they can hit you for the VAT – exactly as if you were a criminal importing some stuff.
What will happen to UK issued certificates of free circulation, post-brexit, if no VAT treaty is done, is a good Q. They will become superfluous. That’s probably a good thing, since most UK owners don’t have one 
From here
Déjà vu?
Yes; I know we are running a number of similar threads. Getting busted for VAT / cabotage / whatever, especially within the Swiss/German frame, seems to be a fashion of the week Maybe especially so since these events are not being discussed in the countries in question…
But, let’s take the statement posted
You are a resident of the EU and your plane is under EU register? No problem then. If you were a Swiss resident, then you can’t fly a EU registered plane into here. And you are not allowed to fly a non-EU plane into the EU unless it has been VAT paid there.
Soooo… what happens if
I reckon the answer has to be NO to both, otherwise all the execs of the Swiss overpriced fancy watch, like the one I have chronograph makers would be busted
Empirical evidence always trumps theory, but I wish I knew the answers. Quite off topic for this thread, but not entirely, and I don’t know which one to move it to, so I will leave it [I changed my mind :smile]
Peter wrote:
a Swiss chap pops over to the USA, and books himself onto a nice big N-reg bizjet to get back to Zurich… does the pilot get busted upon landing?
That is non-scheduled CAT by a USA air carrier. The same as United flying to Zürich. No issue.
Peter wrote:
a Swiss chap pops over to the USA, and buys himself a nice big N-reg bizjet and flies it back to Zurich… does he get busted upon landing?
He is importing the N-reg to Switzerland. He is supposed to declare it at customs, and pay VAT on it (if Swiss VAT law is anything like EU VAT law).
He is importing the N-reg to Switzerland
I don’t understand that at all @lionel. His flight the very next day will be to Kathmandu.
Are you saying that I (UK passport holder, and forget brexit for now) buy an N-reg plane in the US, fly it to the UK, and immediately get busted for import VAT?
That is contrary to ICAO principles.
I would get busted for import VAT after x months (where x varies according to whether I hold a UK passport or not, but I don’t have a reference for it).
Also ferry pilots would be busted the moment they land at Wick.
