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US Visas - an interesting clarification

This appears to say that flight training, if less than 18hrs per week, does not need the traditional M-1 visa which is quite a process to get.

The "18hrs" provision has always been there, and always looked like it would offer a route for a normal non-visa visitor to get flight training done, but there were always people who would disagree with that interpretation. Various comms from US Embassies, for example, have disagreed with it.

One is unlikely to exceed 18hrs/week doing flight training, though it is possible especially if you also include ground school sessions.

Pleasure, Tourism, Medical Treatment - Visitor Visas (B-2) - As examples, if the purpose of your planned travel is recreational in nature, including tourism, vacation (holiday), amusement, visits with friends or relatives, rest, medical treatment, activities of a fraternal, social, or service nature, and participation by amateurs, who will receive no remuneration, in musical, sports and similar events or contests, then a visitor visa (B-2) would be the appropriate type of visa for your travel. If you are going to the U.S. primarily for tourism, but want to take a short course of study which is recreational (and not for credit towards a degree), and the course is less than 18 hours per week, this is permitted on a visitor visa.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I think this text actually means the opposite of what you think.

There are several problems with it. First of all it specifically says "not for credit towards a degree" which basically excludes anything but post license currency training. It also mentions "recreational" and real flight training can most likely not be considered recreational (as it requires the student to master certain techniques which is constantly being monitored by the FI and leads to an exam which one can fail to pass).

Last but not least it only talks broadly about "a short course of study". If there is anything else which talks more specifically about flight training, it would be applicable instead of this very generic statement. I believe that there were statements about flight training in the past.

As long as there is any ambiguity left, you will have to get the visa.

I would say very definitely flying training per se is no credit towards a degree...A degree is an academic qualification (Bachelor's or Master's Degree).....also if you are training for say an IR on your PPL it is by (aviation) definition "recreational"....

The words quoted refer to a B2 visa....would it be equally applicable to the VWP?

YPJT, United Arab Emirates

Yes; in both UK and US English a "degree" is unambiguously a university degree.

if you are training for say an IR on your PPL it is by (aviation) definition "recreational"

The funny thing is that, under the "old traditional" interpretation, a PPL, an IR, or an ME Rating needed the M-1 visa, but a CPL, CFI, CFII, ATP didn't. See the URL I posted, with the actual text here.

So "professional" qualifications were/are specifically exempted! That makes it possible to do the CPL etc at a Part 61 school which is one of the benefits of not needing the M1 Visa which requires a Part 141 school.

Of course there are loads of people with vested interests (nobody currently posting here) who will always disagree with this, extremely vigorously if necessary.

I believe that there were statements about flight training in the past.

Many, indeed, but always just opinions from people in various positions. A persistent problem is that if you ask almost anybody in the UK governmental apparatus (e.g. an embassy) about this, they immediately equate "flight training" = "9/11", and that is even if they have not just moved to their present job from Macdonalds...

What this kind of official statement makes possible is that you can contact a little friendly Part 61 school in the USA, present it to them, and if they are happy with it, you take a holiday out there and get your stuff done, flying less than 18hrs/week. And the text would IMHO cover them if they got any trouble.

As long as there is any ambiguity left, you will have to get the visa.

There always will be...

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

But then there is TSA approval (which is not directly related to visa requirements)....for issue of a PPL or IR TSA approval is required....and the school needs to be nominated (and acknowledged by the school).....is this possible at a Part 61 school?

(scrub that question...I have discovered Part 61 schools are entitled to register with the TSA as "Provider Admin" - although they cannot sponsor a student for an M1 visa...as you have pointed out previously)

YPJT, United Arab Emirates
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