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Ditching accidents, life rafts, jackets and equipment, training and related discussion

I am more positive: I would say somewhere between three to 12 hours until you lose consciousness. As a teen i used to go snorcheling in the Mediterranean a lot … and many times i was in the water for 5+ hours in July, August …

I am not sure if there is a typo there. The idea in GA ditching is to activate the life raft outside the cockpit and step straight into it. Not try to get into it from water, which is much harder (unless there is somebody already in it in which case it is fairly easy, except for a “large” person) and many people will not be able to do it at all. With a high wing plane you lose that easier option…

No typo, just a sailors adage, on the basis that as the yacht sinks beneath your feet and only as it does so, step into the raft, born out of all those sailors that sadly got into the raft before their yacht sank, died, only for the yacht to be found a week later in good condition.

Just this happened to six men not that long ago, sadly they all died. There followed several weeks of criticism that the yacht was not up to the conditions of the extreme north as was the case. The manufacturers remained silent, having sold their yachts as one of the best and safest blue water yachts. Three weeks later the yacht was found of course abandoned, floating, dry, and with rigging and mast intact. It was sailed back to port. The manufacturers said nothing.

Most people floating who ultimately die from hyperthermia do so not because of the direct consequence of the cold water, but the combination of stress, shock and rapid loss of heat through the effort of staying afloat and generally being poor at staying afloat and unfit.

But there isn’t much exact data to go on anyway if I remember correctly.

I recall the best data on cold water survival comes from tests done by Germany in WW2, on prisoners. There has been a lot of controversy whether it is ethical to reference this and how it should be referenced without appearing to approve of the methods etc.

Anybody who has a swimming pool will tell you 26C is OK if you keep swimming. But most people can’t do that for hours because they run out of energy.

The reality however is that very little open sea is at 26C or anywhere near that.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

In that case you will spend your life flying alone, or with passengers who are into “rubber”, which is a rather 1970s thing I am told

It all depends on what you’re after ;-)

But seriously, this was about the North Atlantic and you shouldn’t try this with a survival suit.

EDFM (Mannheim), Germany

Peter wrote:

There are 2 methods I know of and neither is easy.

Could you please describe these methods?

172driver wrote:

In a high-wing a/c where you will get into the water and will have to swim to the raft, forget it.

Does anybody know how and in which time the two occupants from the C210 ditching near Corsica managed to leave the cabin? And which method of entering their raft did they use?

Berlin, Germany

Hard to do without diagrams, but the first one is in post #31. The second, much harder one, is to lie next to it and using one arm and the corresponding leg, work your way into it, a bit like climbing over a brick wall.

The first one is dead easy for a fit person if there is somebody already in the raft, preventing it tipping back onto you. Or if it is a large enough raft to not tip. The 4-person (~10kg) rafts will (I think) tip onto you, and then you have a lot of work inverting them.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Search EuroGA for the Malta TB20 ditching.

But that only works in a nice weather. Without a good ballast, especially lightly loaded (one person in a raft for four), you will capsize easily. And then what? I vaguely remember being told that a lot of ditchings happen close to shore. They’re often survivable with just a vest. Especially if you’re not treading water as you shouldn’t. But that’s just luck unless you fly only along shore and in a region with good SAR service.

Peter wrote:

We did the life raft weight thing here before. Someone found a fairly light raft with a ladder recently (probably the one you found; I recall 13kg) but historically they were 20kg+ and too heavy for me to move. I had one on rental for a bit.

I recall Winslow had in the 1999 test of life rafts by Doug Ritter (published on AVweb and his own website) RescueRaft which was a stripped out Island Flyer but it kept the entry aids. It was quoted at 16 pounds. Yes, the old Island Flyer was about 18-19 kg IIRC, but it also had decent ballast and canopy if memory serves me right so still not shabby.

Boscomantico. Thank you for sharing. The AOPA training sounds like a extensive training. The training I found offers the following( for 100 euro):

1. Water survival (ditching) theory
2. Clothing and mental preparation
3. Crew organizational skills and leadership
4. Onboard procedures
5. Surviving without water and food
6. Rescuing
7. Practical training in swimming pool

Still worth it? Or is the training to basic in your opinion?

jkv
EHEH

Without a good ballast, especially lightly loaded (one person in a raft for four), you will capsize easily.

I don’t think the raft will capsize with somebody in it. On the open sea, unless there is ferocious wind, the waves don’t break. You just go up and down. I have been windsurfing in waves maybe 3m high (years ago ).

But capsize trying to get in, sure… that’s the hard bit.

Winslow and RFD have always made good rafts. Just heavy, historically.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

what_next wrote:

In a swimming pool with 22 degree warm water, no waves and no wind.

There are courses which offer training even in a simulated storm – waves, wind, rain, the whole lot. Now imagine doing it like the military and spending 24 hours in that raft at full capacity (lets call it a team building exercise).

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