boscomantico wrote:
Makes a point for low wing aircraft, where at least potentially there is a chance of getting in straight from the wing.
Correct. While of course you may get into a non-laddered raft, your chances diminish by an order of magnitude – at least. In a high-wing a/c where you will get into the water and will have to swim to the raft, forget it. In any case, getting into a non-laddered raft if you’re not 20 and well trained is like playing roulette. Just try it. Keep your clothes on, get an inflatable dinghy, throw it in the ocean off Brighton, swim to it and then try to get in. Good luck. I’d rather not…
Makes a point for low wing aircraft, where at least potentially there is a chance of getting in straight from the wing
Yes very much so. A successful low wing ditching gives you 1-2 mins to get out and into the raft. A successful high wing ditching gives you maybe tens of seconds. That said, the survival stats I have seen in the distant past were not that different, which suggests that enough of the HW occupants do manage to get into their rafts somehow.
If one could get a ~10kg raft with a ladder (which actually works) then I’d say go for it! I suspect it might not work that well, based on trying it in a pool…
Anyway this thread’s OP was about survival training… Opinions vary, though most seem to think it is worth doing. Most of what I have read of it seems to be commercially oriented stuff, not GA-applicable.
In a high-wing a/c where you will get into the water and will have to swim to the raft, forget it
I wonder if the stats support that?
@Peter, we have to agree to disagree here. Whatever, I trust the ANARE survival experts on this. With all due respect – a non-laddered raft is ballast, nothing more, unless in exceptional circumstances. I wouldn’t even consider buying one. Don’t think you’ll get a proper one weighing 10kgs, but a 20kg one can be found here (that’s after a quick Google search, I’m sure there are many others out there)
Edited to add: this piqued my interest and here is a 13.5kg one: http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/island-flyer-light-raft-four-man-life-raft.html
The posts about rafts etc, not related to whether survival training makes sense, have been moved to the combined life raft thread
My opinion doesn’t carry any weight, 172driver. I have never ditched.
But loads of people have got into ladder-less rafts. If they all died, I am sure SP and others would be out of business. I for one know one who did it, so one cannot speak in absolutes.
An unfit/obese person won’t get in, sure. But there are many similar facets to risk management e.g. would you fly in a PA28 with a barely mobile large person in the RHS? This is why I refused to consider single door types back in 2002. It was really obvious that in various emergency situations nobody will be getting out.
We did the life raft weight thing here before. Someone found a fairly light raft with a ladder recently (probably the one you found; I recall 13kg) but historically they were 20kg+ and too heavy for me to move. I had one on rental for a bit.
Peter wrote:
But loads of people have got into ladder-less rafts.
Have you got a reference for the ladder-less part?
I am not saying it cannot be done, but I find it somewhat absurd to spend good money on something that is sub-optimal at best, when a much better solution is on offer. I – luckily! – never had to ditch, but I simply take my cues here from people who teach survival at sea for a living.
Anyway, let’s hope none of us will ever have to put that theory to a test!
Peter wrote:
would you fly in a PA28 with a barely mobile large person in the RHS?
Stated like a proper Englishman. I had never considered that possibility, but am now alert to the concept.
Right. WB takes a backseat on overwater flights from now on. ;)
Have you got a reference for the ladder-less part?
Search EuroGA for the Malta TB20 ditching. Same raft as I have. Very widely sold, and widely overhauled by various firms.
I agree a 13kg raft with a ladder is a better option. Times move on.
Stated like a proper Englishman
Actually I am Czech 
but how else can one say it? I would definitely never make it in politics, if that’s what you mean 
Looks like you can survive a pretty long time if the water is really warm.
Source: http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/coastal_communities/hypothermia
Flyer59 wrote:
Looks like you can survive a pretty long time if the water is really warm.
The way I read it is that if the water has 26.7° C you may be dead from hypothermia after 3 hours. But there isn’t much exact data to go on anyway if I remember correctly.
