A passenger with a suicide history

I have the utmost sympathy to the girl in question, and for the family.

I would genuinely hope that a flight in a light aircraft would be a unique and thrilling adventure for this girl (assuming this is something that would interest her anyhow, and is not just an attempt to distract the girl from her normal trains of thought). I would also hope it would give her something positive to think of.

But would I take her? Probably (because I try and do good where I can), but only if she was chaperoned with an adult, and she was in the back seat away from any controls - you have to be safe, and practical above all else. The chaperone would have to be physically strong and emotionally strong to deal with the situation if it didnt go well.

Also if I am with anyone who hasnt flown before or is likely to have an issue, then I never stray far away from the local area so I can get back if need be.

I doubt there is any real correlation between someone trying to drug themselves and having a problem in a plane.

Do you know her reasonably well? Is it the sort of thing that she would enjoy? Is she very petite and could you overpower her, or does she play rugby in her spare time? Is this an isolated episode or does she generally have a stormy temperament?

Nobody can possibly give you an answer without sitting down with her and having a good chat with her. Personally speaking I wouldn't worry so much about her depression as much as possible impulsiveness associated with it. Most people with mental health issues are by far most likely to kill themselves, followed by members of their family second, their psychiatrists third, and unrelated persons very rarely indeed. Very few people - *****air pilots excepted - choose to take other people with them when they go.

That's why I would worry about impulsiveness more than depression alone. If she's impulsive, she might decide to jump out of the plane on final approach - which could be bad for both of you ('I've only just thought of it, and it's my last chance') or try to crash the plane without having premeditated or stopped to consider the effects on other people. Or she could try another 'cry for help' that somehow ended up killing you both because she did something stupid without actually realising how dangerous it was.

I would also be much more concerned about psychosis which can be a feature of bipolar disorder (a disease which involves episodes of depression mixed with manic, impulsive episodes) or schizophrenia and which could cause people to come up with something truly unexpected. As an aside, you can get a pilot's licence medical even if you've had quite severe depression, but not if you've got a diagnosis of bipolar disorder.

I would also tend to put her in the front seat - after all, it's a far more fun place to be - with somebody I trusted to be decisive in the back seat behind her. That way they can grab her or disable her if she should try to open the door or try to grab the controls. I'm happy to be told otherwise, but my feeling is that she would be less of a danger to you sitting at your side than behind you (whether directly or obliquely).

For 9/10 people in the situation you describe, I'd take them flying if I thought they were likely to enjoy it. The type of half-hearted 'parasuicide' attempt you mention is very common. Girls very rarely choose violent forms of death. It's nice to offer people with mental health issues the same chances that we offer everybody else. For 1/10 I would have real reservations. But I also have a fair amount of experience with mental health issues and whilst making judgement calls of this nature is not an exact science, I think I know which of my friends are low or high risk.

I took a friend of mine to Duxford the other day, and we had a fantastic time. He is a plane nut of the more interesting variety and could tell me far more about the aircraft than I knew myself, and a lot about their engines and technical systems. He also suffers from very serious depression but I had no concerns whatsoever about him posing a risk to myself or himself during the flight.

I have once not taken a passenger who I suspect had latent psychosis of some description. He is a very odd, but quite pleasant chap, who I find interesting to talk to. His mental health issues obviously made his life much less interesting than it deserved to be, so I had wondered whether he would like to go for a flight. I did worry about it a bit because he was bigger and stronger than me, but the ultimate reason I didn't take him was because when I mentioned that I was a pilot he immediately said 'oh, I'd never want to do that - I hate heights.'

I have a somewhat differing view from the foregoing.

Take her flying, as a regular person. No guards or security measures. Best just you and her, so it's a special event just for her. She tried to kill herself, not someone else. She will have more respect for you than you think, particularly if you are treating her as a responsible person, and extending a courtesy.

If the plane you will use can easily have the right side controls removed, and you can have that pre arranged so she is unaware that it has been done, that's fair. But, to make a scene of removing them in her presence would be demeaning, and feeding into whatever poor feelings she may have, that got her where she was.

I once took a mentally challenged young fellow flying, and he decided to fly. It was a bit of a wrestling match, which he thought was fun, but I maintained control. You can over power an unco-operative passenger if you need to.

You may find that with your genuine caring for the spirit of this girl, you might present her with a new and happy perspective on life, which is a nice thing for her. Any sign you present of not trusting her simply feeds into her unhappy feelings, and you're making it worse. You're better doing nothing, than displaying mistrust to her.

As for jumping out, have you tried to open a light aircraft door in flight enough to exit? It is difficult to do, and certainly won't be done quickly by a person who has not practiced. Don't worry about this.

It's fine to discuss concerns with your peers here, but don't allow her to detect any concern. The 21 year old daughter of pilot couple friends of mine, who was also a pilot herself, and a truly amazing girl, succeeded in a very messy suicide a few weeks ago. No one would have ever imagined. This is fresh in my mind. Any of us could have helped this girl, if we had know that help was needed.

Genuinely embrace people who have thought of suicide, don't restrain them!

I agree with Pilot-DAR almost wholeheartedly. Another way to put it would be...

'Would you drive in a car with this person?'

If the answer is 'yes', then why would you not fly with them?

I think I'd also say that although my passenger may wouldn't make it out of the door, I wouldn't want them behaving unpredictably at a critical phase of the flight.

To summarise my post, if depression is the only diagnosis (very probably the case), I probably wouldn't worry. If there's something more, then I might.

'Would you drive in a car with this person?' If the answer is 'yes', then why would you not fly with them?

Because in a car you can stop, pull over to the side of the road and deal with a situation. In a plane, its not so easy, and the pilot needs to be concentrating on a number of things to make the flight safe, and land safely too. You cant just stop mid air to deal with the situation. For that reason I suggested a chaperone should be present.

I'd say that regardless of whether someone had been suicidal previously. If you dont know who you are taking up, and you dont know if you can control them when you have other important tasks to do, have another responsible person with you.

Well, on the more general topic of "would you want this person as a passenger?", it is of course up to the level of comfort of the pilot, and no pilot should fly with a passenger who constitutes a risk to safety. But what about taking Grandpa Xavier, who suddenly grabs his chest, and falls forward on the controls? I have seen a heart attack happen, and you are not going to straighten that body out, no matter how slight the stature!

And I've driven your English roads! I'd rather deal with a problem in the air, than look for a layby to pull into. I'd be in Edinburgh before I got the car pulled over in a clear space!

At the charity where I volunteer, it's simple. Someone with suicide tendencies, severe depression, or somebody else where you don't think it's entirely safe, should not be in a 'control seat'.

If you can remove the RHS controls, great. Like DAR said, do it beforehand so it is not construed as a lack of faith. But otherwise you've got to make a judgement call: Can she be trusted in the air or not. If not, she needs to go in the back.

On the other hand, like what JasonC alluded to, her suicide attempt might not have been too serious after all, and might be more of a cry for attention. It apparently happens a lot to girls that age who feel they cannot comply with societies pressures. She might not want to take her life, or at least not in a painful way, in reality, and she almost certainly doesn't want to hurt anybody else in the process.

The most important question would probably be: The whole flying thing, was that her idea or somebody else's, and how did she react to it when it was proposed to her? If she's genuinely excited about it, you're going to be fine. If she's indifferent or hostile to the idea, you might just be dealing with typical teenage behavior and you will not know beforehand what's going to happen unless you know her really well and are able to read the subtle signs. And if she starts asking weird questions like how the doors can be opened, what the mortality rate of a crash is and such, you know you've got to run away.

And in any case I would take another adult in the plane who is known to her and who she trusts. But at the same time that adult should be physically strong enough to overpower her, and manly enough to use physical force if necessary. Brief that adult accordingly, but again not in her presence.

And I'll put a further dilemma forward. If the reason for her suicide is that she feels she's not up to the pressure of society, it might help a lot to teach her something unique, which none of her friends can, and to show her life is worth living. In other words: teach her to fly, or at least fly straight and level, make a few turns and such. That does require her having access to the flight controls though.

I fly regularly with children who have a physical or mental disability and the corresponding position in society. It's a tremendous boost if you approach them as normal human beings, don't talk about their handicap, but just get them in the air and let them handle the controls. I've had kids on board who, in all their life, had never had control over anything larger than their own wheelchair. (Heck, some of those have never had full control over their own body.) To let them control the aircraft is great. To watch them grow while they do so, even better.

might be more of a cry for attention.

The problem is that if she succeeded, she would now be dead, and nobody would be doubting her determination to kill herself.

Then, say she came back to life, would you fly with her? That's the question!

AFAIK a lot of teenagers survive these suicide attempts only because somebody finds them, realises what happened (empty bottles around maybe) and gets them to hospital quickly enough, before permanent organ damage.

I have no experience of doing this myself, but for a presumably healthy teenager, suicide is never going to be a rationally planned action.