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Brexit and general aviation, UK leaving EASA, etc (merged)

The UK deals with both Immigration and Customs using the GAR form system. So every airfield already has Immigration and Customs (dealt with by the same police force). Only a portion of traffic is with the EU…

And all other EU countries also have some portions of non EU traffic. They can make a commercial (or more likely politically driven) decision whether supporting traffic from UK, Switzerland, Norway, and further places like Russia, Serbia, etc, etc, is worth doing, in terms of [travelling] customs officer availability.

The main impact on UK pilots post-brexit would be the loss of the ability to fly direct to airfields which have immigration but no customs. There is a number of these in Germany and Italy, and maybe other places. It is a concession which very few people ever knew about, and most of those airfields have immigration on a (sometimes long) PNR.

I’ve just had a quick look at a couple, St Johann and Zell am See, which I thought were no-Customs, but actually I see, for LOWZ,

and GEN 1.2 says

and then there is a long list which includes both of them. But the yellow bit is interesting… what does it mean?

This is probably relevant also.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I have just checked one place which used to be Immigration only, Oristano LIER, and found this

Is this a recent change in Italy i.e. the merging of Immigration and Customs, so they have either both or none?

In fact LIER was not flyable to/from the UK in 2010 when I went to Sardinia (LIEE). Then I found some general concession in Italy which did allow it, even though the AIP didn’t say so. One local pilot was doing it all the time.

And does Germany have any airports which have only one? I know France had some, near Paris, but that was last discussed a few years ago and may have been temporary.

Maybe @boscomantico knows.

BTW, general brexit stuff belongs to other forums. Keep EuroGA to aviation. Posts will otherwise be deleted.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Here’s a list of German customs airports:
http://www.zoll.de/DE/Fachthemen/Zoelle/Erfassung-Warenverkehr/Befoerderungspflicht/Zollstrassenzwang/liste_zollflugplaetze.html?nn=22492
local copy

Here’s a list of German departure and destination airports: http://www.zoll.de/SiteGlobals/Forms/Suche/EN/Servicesuche_Formular.html?nn=203388&resourceId=253936&input_=203388&pageLocale=en&templateQueryString=airports&submit.x=0&submit.y=0
local copy

And as far as I know, you can enter Germany at any airfield; most flugleiters are entitled to control passports, and if not, local police can be arranged if called ahead.

Last Edited by EuroFlyer at 10 Dec 13:28
Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany

@bluebeard, and probably interesting for others:

I have started changing my UK EASA FCL + Medical to the Norwegian CAA. So far this has been required:
- Norwegian Form NF1057.E sent to Norwegian CAA, together with a scan of FCL and Medical, copy of passport, copies of 2 last pages of logbook, and (and this doesn’t say on the form), proof of TK exam results for the PPL. (It asks for ATPL results, I guess they mean “highest TK you ever got” in practice).
- UK SRG 1202 http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=11&mode=detail&id=2872 local copy sent to the UK CAA to get them to transfer the medical to the Norwegian CAA, together with payment (UK SRG 1201)

- The UK CAA contacted me after a while when they had received the request from the Norwegian CAA for the FCL part. They did indeed need a certified copy of my license (a scan wasn’t good enough), so I had to go on a road trip to find the nearest Chief Instructor of a Registered Training Facility, and got them to sign a copy of the license which includes the text from https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviation/Pilot-licences/Applications/Documentation/How-to-get-copies-of-your-documents-certified/ . It says Head of Training at an ATO there but a Chief Instructor at an RTF is apparently also OK. They also need payment, which is UK FCS1500 http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=11&mode=detail&id=5845 . local copy

For the life of me I can’t understand why the UK CAA wants me to get a Head of Training / Chief Instructor to certify that a copy of a license that THEY have issued with only addtions to the rating validty that they already have received, so that I can scan it and send it in by email, but oh well… It took 8 days from the Norwegian CAA sent the request to the UK CAA until the CAA contacted me to get a ceritifed copy of license and £££. I first sent a plain scan of the license and it took another few days to come back to say that they needed it to be certified. No many-week wait periods so far though, so I guess they’re prioritizing these requests over Peter’s IR. (=

ENOP ENVA

For the life of me I can’t understand why the UK CAA wants me to get a Head of Training / Chief Instructor

It is the institutionalised process in the CAA. The HoT or CFI are persons with specific responsibilities within a school, so they are a “class above” a normal FI who could be anybody who just walks in and does some training and then disappear to an airline job (as the CAA sees it) so his signature means little.

Just walk into a school and ask for the CFI… he will probably yawn and say “oh not another one” and then you put £20 in his teabag money jamjar

I guess they’re prioritizing these requests over Peter’s IR.

Looks like that But I think, under UK common law, my EASA IR is valid not because I have the bit of paper but because I am not disqualified from applying for the bit of paper. That is how the driving license works (or used to), interestingly.

Here’s a list of German departure and destination airports

I wonder what criteria that list meets, because e.g. Hangelar is not listed there, and indeed when we did a meetup there in 2013 it was not flyable from the UK under any circumstances.

And as far as I know, you can enter Germany at any airfield; most flugleiters are entitled to control passports, and if not, local police can be arranged if called ahead.

Is that a recent change?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Just walk into a school and ask for the CFI…

The tricky thing is when the nearest CFI/HoT might be a long way away. I managed with a few hours in a car, but Norway is gnarly , and you might find yourself hundreds of kms from the closest one. All for a signature on a copy of a CAA-issued paper. It feels very Campaign Against Aviation-y. (=

ENOP ENVA

alge wrote:

All for a signature on a copy of a CAA-issued paper. It feels very Campaign Against Aviation-y. (=

Well, after all their motto is We’re not happy until you’re not happy’……

Anyway, on a more serious note – does anyone know if a notarized copy also works and, failing that, if the CFI can be the CFI of a US school? I don’t have access to an EASA school here.

Try someone in with “institutional credentials”?

My understanding the UK CAA will accept these done by doctors, solicitors and postmans…asking if this can be done by US CFI will open more problems than it solves :)

Last Edited by Ibra at 10 Dec 19:16
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

@172driver This is copy pasted from the email they sent me:

“When supplying copies of documents, you are required to have these certified by one of the following persons:

  • Head of Training of a Part ORA Approved Training Organisation
  • Chief Pilot of a Part-OPS Air Operator Certificate Holder
  • Accountable Manager of a UK based commercial operator or flying club
  • Chief Instructor of a Registered Training Facility"

… looks like there’s an easa ato down in San Diego? (=

ENOP ENVA

Hei Alge Just saw at the news, and it looks like you did the right choice. Just curious, how much does it all cost?

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway
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