We have been spoilt over the past 20 or so years since joining the EU, as I said before that it was necessary produce a GENDEC listing every piece of equipment fitted in the aircraft as you were exporting it to Europe and importing same coming back, I will try to find an old one when I get a minute.
Then you needed to find a UK airfield with customs / immigration to leave the UK, ditto again on the way back, if you brought anything back with you, like 4 bottles wine etc, it had to be removed from the aircraft and carried through customs so that it could be searched just to check that you weren’t smuggling an extra 2 bottles.
Let us all hope that Brexit doesn’t mess this all up, as Peter suggests, if it’s set up badly it could effectively ruin European touring for UK based GA.
I suspect we’re going to remain in the customs union – or if not, something that’s remaining in the customs union in all but name. Northern Ireland will ensure that will happen, as no solution that puts custom checks on the Irish border or a customs barrier between NI and rUK is acceptable to the DUP who is the current kingmaker.
MedEwok wrote:
There is zero interest on the continent to kick the UK out of EASA, but there was zero interest on the continent for the UK too leave the EU in the first place.
My sentiment on both counts is that it is spot on. But now that it is done, I do not see any reason why one should give the UK a better deal than for example Norway, Iceland and Lichstenstein, or make concessions that we have not made to other partners. The EU is not “à la carte” where you can pick and choose what suits you.
Norway makes an annual financial contribution to the EU of 391 M€ – in the order of 78 € per capita, or 0,15 % of the gross national income (GNI). The EU member states’ contribution to the EU budget is about 1%.
If the UK wants to remain in EASA, I believe they will also need to accept the jurisdiction of the EU court, which may pose a problem to the sovereignists.
Ibra wrote:
Agree on this, the whole EASA thing went south when EASA Basic Regulations (inherited from EU principals and laws) did not allow for national provisions or domestic laws, so from lawyer perspective it seems that flying a C152 on a NPPL does violates some EU laws…
The whole NPPL is a mystery to me. I do not understand what legal basis there is for the UK to continue to issue national pilot licenses.
quatrelle wrote:
Let us all hope that Brexit doesn’t mess this all up, as Peter suggests, if it’s set up badly it could effectively ruin European touring for UK based GA.Well, the Brexit vote was a consequence of an isolationist sentiment in the population. Including a wish to kick out citizens of other EU MS in order to reclaim the jobs for British citizens. So re-establishing customs checks between the UK and the continent is a natural consequence. And British sovereignty – which does not rime with a membership in EASA.
I do not understand what legal basis there is for the UK to continue to issue national pilot licenses.
About the same as this (and surrounding posts) which, along with much else, I am sure France doesn’t want to give up…
The debate becomes purely one about standardisation i.e. whether there should be a central European govt which imposes uniform laws all over Europe. Clearly France thinks Not, and same applies to most EU member countries!
The UK might be the only one that retains a national license, although France ran its own national IR very recently, which didn’t need ELP so (without ELP) was usable only within France – what happened to that?
Plus of course the great IMC Rating!
So to get this back on the topic, the UK is not and would never be fully EASA compliant. I don’t suppose any European country is 100% EASA compliant. The Q is… what will change?
Aviathor wrote:
If the UK wants to remain in EASA, I believe they will also need to accept the jurisdiction of the EU court, which may pose a problem to the sovereignists.
Why? I realize the EU has made a big deal about keeping the UK under ECJ jurisdiction if they want to remain “in” certain parts of the Union, but I don’t see why this is necessary. The other non-EU members of EASA, like Norway and Switzerland, are also not members of the ECJ. Obviously this depends on how exactly Brexit plays out, but if they get a sort of Norwegian deal, I don’t think that will end up changing much from an aviation standpoint. Whether Norway is what either side actually wants is another question though…
Sort of related, but a bit broader, Turkey and some of the other EU candidate countries are members of Eurocontrol, which suggests that at least at the operational level the CAA/NATS will still be cooperating with EASA/Eurocontrol. This is obviously more relevant for CAT than GA, but I think it suggests that IFR flights and so on are still likely to be feasible with minimal interruption from what’s happening now.
Aviathor wrote:
I do not see any reason why one should give the UK a better deal than for example Norway, Iceland and Lichstenstein, or make concessions that we have not made to other partners.
I don’t think the EU will give the UK a more favorable deal than Norway et al, but neither do I think the end result will be that much worse.
There is no legal basis for the NPPL but there is a pragamtic one: proportionate risk-based regulation from CAA that enhance GA prosperity without forcing other NAAs to accept it or compromise safety
There is the sovereignty argument: CAA can issue licences for flying G-aircraft in G-space…a bit like the “Brevet De Base” I used to hold a while ago in France which was issued by DGAC but relies on aeroclub instructors assessment of risk
But I prefer the pragmatic argument than political or ideological ones: national sovereignty as pushed by hard UK Brexiters or political integration as pushed by hard EU lawmakers…none of them is concerned about GA safety or prosperity…
Peter wrote:
although France ran its own national IR very recently, which didn’t need ELP so (without ELP) was usable only within France – what happened to that?
Maybe it is age. Now you mention it I am pretty sure there were some provisions for countries to maintain their national licenses and ratings until a date in 2018 or 2019 – I just cannot find it. I probably need to find some time to dig back into the basic regulation and Part-FCL.
The French national IR is pretty much history now. I do not think that you can get it anymore. AFAIK there is a migration path for the holders to get the EASA IR – consisting of getting the ELP.
It is easy to fall on one’s own sword when making standardisation arguments against say the UK when others want the same.
Peter wrote:
My view is that the UK will remain in EASA simply because extracting it will be so complicated and with so little gain to anybody (except pure spite, as shown in e.g. post #3) that nobody will want to actually do it.
Peter, my view used to be that the UK will remain in the EU simply because extracting it will be so complicated and with so little gain to anybody (except pure spite, as shown in e.g. post #3) that nobody will want to actually do it.
There are times when it is better to just let
(EuroGA daily audience)
make their own silent judgement on the poster of comments like
Let us please enjoy this divorce for a bit
