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Brexit and general aviation, UK leaving EASA, etc (merged)

Of course it will be beneficial to be a member of EASA. But without a deal, how is that going to work? The very existence of EASA is based on the free market within EU. Norway, Iceland and Switzerland all have deals in which EASA is included, but none of EASA regulations mean a single thing before they are included into local law, regulation by regulation (this takes some time). This goes both ways. It is of equal importance that the local version of EASA regulations are in fact EASA regulations from EU’s point of view. With no deal, I guess the UK could simply create 1 to 1 local regulations of EU regulations, but there will be no legal basis within EU that these regulations are in fact EASA regulations, because with no deal, they simply aren’t. This is what a deal is all about.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

There is no such thing as “no deal”. There is only a prior deal (pre brexit) or a later deal (post brexit).

This is the same for almost any contractual scenario.

Consequently anything is possible, according to one’s negotiating position. Including EASA membership.

To take this debate any further would take us away from the direct aviation impact and into the “usual” territory, for which there are lots of other places

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Did I miss something ? I thought I’d have two years post-Brexit to sort things out.
Time is ticking, I guess…

EBST, Belgium

Nothing has recently changed.

The issue here is that the UK CAA is offering to honour EASA pilot papers (validity for any EASA-reg aircraft, including G-reg) for two years post-brexit, while Brussels is terminating UK pilot papers (validity for any EASA-reg aircraft) immediately on brexit date.

And UK CAA jurisdiction extends only to UK airspace – except for standard ICAO provisions which make a UK issued license valid for a G-reg worldwide and Brussels has no say in that (well, ICAO gives each Contracting State absolute sovereignity in its airspace, so Brussels could issue a Directive to member countries to regard UK issued papers as void, but that would be a whole new level of confrontation).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Being restricted to flying a G-reg on an easa-ppl in UK airspace only, from day 1, is new information to me. In the remaining timeframe I think the only solution is to get a UK-ppl based on my easa one.

EBST, Belgium
… except for standard ICAO provisions which make a UK issued license valid for a G-reg worldwide …

In addition licences rendered valid by the state of registry—or the state of the operator for certain aircraft leases charters or interchanges, eg Sunwing/TUI—must be accepted by contracting states when the holder is not one of its nationals.

Article 33

Recognition of certificates and licenses

Certificates of airworthiness and certificates of competency
and licenses issued or rendered valid by the contracting State
in which the aircraft is registered, shall be recognized as valid
by the other contracting States, provided that the requirements
under which such certificates or licences were issued or
rendered valid are equal to or above the minimum standards
which may be established from time to time pursuant to this
Convention.

Last Edited by Qalupalik at 22 Sep 13:26
London, United Kingdom

Indeed. The UK CAA says it will be ok with an EASA PPL folder flying a G-reg for 2 years post-brexit, and I don’t see how their limitation to UK airspace can be valid.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The requirement imposed on other states by the convention does not oblige UK to render foreign licences valid without territorial limitation. The fact that UK may do so is entirely of its own volition.

London, United Kingdom

This may be very relevant, post-brexit.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I must admit to being totally confused.

I still have my CAA licence – which was after all a lifetime CAA licence. All that changed with EASA, but not the licence.

So presumably the licence will prove just as good in future as it was before?

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