RobertL18C wrote:
…most of the training is ground school and sim based, these been specially adapted full motion simulators…
The problem is that a full motion class C/D simulator, in order to be approved, needs to have it’s mathematical model based on flight data. So far, there are no flight data available outside the normal envelope for most aircraft for which class C/D simulators exist. And there never will.
Since a few years, triggered by AF447, they let us do some high altitude upset recovery training at Flight Safety during our yearly recurrent training. However, they emphasize each time that this is not really approved flight training as the behavior of the simulated aircraft is based upon guesswork and extrapolated data and not test flown aircraft.
The heavy corporate iron seems to be investing in meeting the requirement, as I mentioned Flight Safety may have the only approved course at the moment, obviously type specific.
The one manoeuvre a sim will really throw a conniption fit at is a loop. I have done some serious upset stuff (deep stalls, attempts at spinning &c) in the Learjet sim at CAE, which also does a more than passable aileron and barrel roll. However, the response of the sim was a bit too “obvious” and programmed once it really departed to my mind.
We were told attempts at loops were verboten because the changes in g force could severely damage the simulator jacks (and had done so on other sims in the past.)
There is generic training provided by Ultimate High for about £5k a head but I’m not sure what our plan is for our on type stuff. I do 30 mins of aeros with an instructor every few months and we do plenty of recoveries (partly from my rubbish aeros, partly deliberate!)
Josh wrote:
We were told attempts at loops were verboten because the changes in g force could severely damage the simulator jacks (and had done so on other sims in the past.)
Amazing that the simulator doesn’t have protection for that…
An airline pilot I know personally has done rolls in a 757 and 767 sim.
Apparently it works well but only if you unload the wings first, by flying a ballistic trajectory. You can’t do it in level flight (I don’t recall why; maybe exceeding G).
Gently done a barrel roll can be kept to 2 to 2 1/2 g as demonstrated in this famous clip. Not possible in the non Seattle product, even in alternate law.
I’ve done a barrel roll in the Cirrus full flight sim in Poznan. It’s not very realistic i would say.
Regarding 360° simulators – there is one in the London Science Museum. It’s fun, but not realistic (doesn’t even have rudder pedals). It would be a good idea to use that technology to construct a realistic aerobatic sim.
The military have full 360° simulators and use them more and more for fast jet training. It’s just not worth the money for civilian stuff.
My understanding of the prohibition on loops in FFS is the reversal in g creates enough momentum in the sim to damage the equipment before you hit the motion trips.
For the Lear, you need to pitch to around 10° at 250kts to get a decent aileron roll and end up straight and level.
AFAIK any motion system has protection buffers to make sure that no damage is caused to the hydraulic (or nowadays electric) actuators. Well, at least I know the ones my company built did..
The 360 degrees motion effect in fighter simulators is achieved by a combination of a conventional 6 degrees of freedom moving platform and a G-suit/seat system. The latter does things like simulating positive G’s by pulling belts to press the pilot in his seat, while at the same time the seat sinks a bit and the cushion hardens. Actually, many fighter sims only use this G-suit/seat set up.
