I think there needs to be an option in FF to “remain in CAS”. I imagine this will be hard for FF to implement because they appear to be trying to use their standard product which is really for the US market.
I don’t have beta version access so it would be interesting to hear what is coming along, because it has been a long time now with no improvements.
I’ve noticed that the Autorouter also filed an OCAS route for EIWT-EGKA
-EIWT1500
-N0149F070 WST DCT LUSAT DCT TIBGA/N0152F100 DCT STU DCT AMMAN DCT INRUB DCT UGBUD DCT BCN Q63 CPT DCT MID
-EGKA0200 EGKB
FL100 is well OCAS.
I’ve just looked back and on previous occassions between EGKA and EIWT it went up to FL150 (but on different routes) so something has changed…
The problem with developing these products is always the “final 10 percent”. These final 10 percent of result actually necessitate another 90 percent of effort (like many things in life). Especially on the VFR side, since this is so much less standardized throughout Europe. See SkyDemon and their huge and continued efforts over the last years.
Compare with Garmin Pilot; they have apparently given up on getting the VFR side of their program up to standard. Actually, it doesn’t seem they ever really tried.
The Q is whether ForeFlight is willing and able to do this effort. I would guess they would be able, but possibly not willing to, since it costs alot of money, and only a fraction of the users actually spot the minor shortcomings, whereas the rest will just revel about the “awesome” features, especially in terms of interfacing with other hardware.
I have largely abandoned the idea that there will be a one-stop shop solution out there which will be ideal both for VFR and IFR flying, and both for preflight action and inflight action.
So, for almost 5 years now, I have been using:
(Terminal) charts is a separate topic, still.
Well, yes, but the devil is in the detail.
To make a tool wholly usable for the job, you don’t need to do much at all. You just need to do the essential feature set and do it really well.
To make a tool flashy enough to attract fanatical fanboy support on social media, especially if you think Jepp MFDVFR is going to eat your lunch one day so you have to get in before they do, you have to do quite a lot, even if the product ends up so complex few non-IT specialists know how to use it.
For FF to be great for VFR they need to do a small number of things like map declutter, graphical notams (not necessarily parsing the coordinate lists; even SD can’t be doing that for all of Europe due to human involvement being needed occassionally, but they do need to do it for the Blackbushe-Sandown burger run), and a few other bits. No point in competing with SD on features because 99% of people don’t use them all. Map quality is a key thing and nothing approaches MFDFR but then MFDVFR is some €300 which few flying VFR will pay.
For FF to be great for IFR they need to do the various things already posted in this thread. The autorouting needs to be revamped so it has fly-by waypoints (absolutely key to being able to shape the desired route around wx, French ATC strikes, etc) and so on. The Autorouter does the job very well (not least because myself and many others fed in rafts of feature requests, not to mention EuroGA helping massively to launch the product and get a few k pilots signed up – I have the actual numbers, up to a year or so ago) but everybody is acutely aware that a Plan B is badly needed; currently there basically isn’t one, and the AR does sometimes fail.
Since I started flying in year 2000, I have been involved as
)to every moving map aviation app I know of, starting with reams of emails with the Navbox programmer who wrote it many years previously in Clarion and could do nothing with it partly as a result of that.
Hence, BTW, I would not sign any NDA which prohibits such involvement.
FF has a lot of potential because you can load up GTN and IFR boxes from it directly. For IFR that is a significant timesaver which the people who fly reasonable routes will pay for.
One recurring comment (which I can’t check myself) is battery life. FF seems to run down the Ipad battery much faster than SD or any other aviation app, except perhaps the Golze one which (on Android, at least) does that too. Probably not a problem in flying because one is normally powering the device, but it would accelerate overheating and resulting shutdown, and this definitely is a big problem except in air conditioned turboprop/jet cockpits with small windows.
We often WANT to stay outside CAS. If you always stay inside CAS you sometimes get massively longer routes
Of course; for those who know how to play the game, and who accept the risk of getting pushed down into convective wx, into the “missile alley” nontransponding traffic at 2300ft under the LTMA, etc, this should always be an option. My two flights this weekend, EGKA-EIWT and back, are a great example of the track miles saved. Would I recommend this to a pilot visiting from outside the UK? Probably not, especially if he is inbound to the UK.
The underlying question, to me, is whether FF want to generate a European version of the app. They will absolutely have to do that to produce a viable product.
With some ingenuity one could make the present “US app” do it for IFR by e.g. implementing the fly-by waypoint specification by simply allowing you to enter them into the route you wish to autoroute. Currently, to autoroute from say EGKA to EIWT you type in
EGKA EIWT
and anything in between gets ignored. One could implement fly-by waypoints by not ignoring the stuff in between and that would be a vastly nicer UI than the laborious method the AR uses. Stuff like the lack of map declutter, very few care about. But for VFR, new functionality is definitely needed.
Hi all,
Just catching up. We appreciate all the feedback given and I just wanted to mention that we are continuing to work on new functionality for Europe, especially in the VFR space. We have quite the roadmap of items to implement, however, I wanted to let you all know we are actively working. While we have not released new European features recently, we have continued to polish existing features with Europe in mind. We will have more news soon so continue to provide feedback. We are listening.
Josh
Peter wrote “Map quality is a key thing and nothing approaches MFDFR but then MFDVFR is some €300 which few flying VFR will pay.”
But if you do the sums it gets to be less outrageously expensive – with other software you need to pay extra for VFR approach charts for Germany and Switzerland which are included in JMFDVFR
Yes I agree. And I bet most MFDVFR users are in Germany, partly because of this and partly for cultural reasons (Jepp having an office in Germany being one of those).
Hi all,
I just wanted to drop by and announce that ForeFlight 10.4 was released yesterday evening. Below are the release notes, including our announcement of French and Swiss data coverage improvements:
Additional Charts for France & Switzerland
All European subscribers can now download AIPs for Switzerland and France, which include enroute charts, instrument approach charts, VFR approach charts (France only), airport diagrams, and documents, in addition to the Jeppesen VFR and IFR data already available.
Enhance your VFR flying with a range of optional add-ons for both countries:
IGN’s VFR ICAO chart (France)
Skyguide’s VFR Guide (Switzerland)
SwissTopo’s VFR ICAO chart (Switzerland)
DFS VFR charts (North-East France & Switzerland)
Cartabossy’s VFR weekday and weekend charts (France & Switzerland)
Jeppesen VFR procedure charts (formerly known as Bottlang) are also available for both countries.
ForeFlight already provides advanced flight planning capabilities for France and Switzerland, including fast autorouting and EUROCONTROL route validation, IFR and VFR flight plan filing, and helpful flight plan notifications like EUROCONTROL slot allocation messages, flight suspension and de-suspension notices, and calculated takeoff time (CTOT) messages caused by flight plan delays.
VFR Autorouting in Europe
Route Advisor now generates VFR route suggestions for European subscribers, simplifying VFR flight planning.
The VFR generated routes comply with standard AIP guidelines for VFR flights, such as keeping leg times below 30 minutes each, avoiding class A airspace, and placing waypoints on or near FIR boundaries to simplify border crossings.
ForeFlight supports planning and filing VFR flight plans in all EUROCONTROL-administered countries.
Map & Navigation Enhancements
Tap on SID/STAR procedure bubbles in the Route Editor to find the new “Show Plate” action, which will open the plate in the Plates view or overlay it on the map if it supports geo-referencing and you have a Pro Plus subscription or higher.
You can now display multiple user content files on the map at once by selecting them from the Layer Selector, including .mbtiles user charts and .kml user map layers. Visit foreflight.com/user-content for more information on how to create and use these files.
Recent Aircraft List
ForeFlight now puts your five most recently-used aircraft profiles at the top of the aircraft list, making it easier to access and edit the aircraft you fly most often.
The “Most Recent” section appears in all places where you can access your aircraft, including More > Aircraft and the aircraft selectors on Maps and Flights.
Integrated Maps in Track Log View
View your recorded flight track on an interactive map inside the app. The Map shows the track on top of ForeFlight’s Aeronautical Map layer, including embedded airport diagrams so you can examine your taxi movements.
Low Battery Alert for Connected Portable Devices
ForeFlight will alert you with a visual and audio warning when a portable device’s battery level reaches 20%, giving you ample time to supply power before it runs out.
The alert is currently provided for Sentry, Stratus, all supported Garmin portables, and SiriusXM’s SXAR1.
New Current Location Markers
Customize your inflight experience with new icons for dozens of military airplane and helicopter types: B-1, B-2, T-6, C-130, A-10, F-15, U-2, AH-64, H-65, and many more.
The new aircraft icons are available in More > Settings > Current Location Marker.
For more information and videos, visit www.foreflight.com/10-4
Josh
