Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Pilots you knew who are no longer with us, and what did you learn from the reports?

Anyone know if there is a legal aftermath in process?

Not AFAIK. I did a google and nothing came up.

There have been many many accidents where the rumour mill went into overdrive, of insurance not paying out, etc, but almost never does anything actually surface. Probably none of the parties want to talk about it. One notable exception was the famous Graham Hill (F1 driver) crash, many years ago, where the asset stripping of his family was well documented in contemporary media.

OTOH there are proven cases where an insurer did pay out despite a pilot not being “quite legit” (although the ones I knew about were smaller claims).

Also not always does the “student” or his estate sue even if they could; I recall several cases which amazed everybody. Not gonna say more because they are reading the forum.

There are various avenues to look for stuff like this but none of them are trivial, especially for Guernsey. In the UK you can dig out all kinds of interesting hints from the Land Registry, for very small fees. It’s similar in the US where you hear of huge jury awards but rarely of who paid out and how much at the end, some years later, and to find out, somebody has to do some serious legwork.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

This thread reminds me of the famous quote :
A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations which require the use of his superior skill.

In UK, there are not many FCL PPL.A(TMG) FIs(maybe 10), FEs(maybe 3) all motor-gliding is done under BGA clubs (only two are ATOs) or old UKPPL/NPPL rules

I am sure PG flew extensively on Sailplanes & TMGs (not sure about HK36) and AFAIK getting TMG rating based on past experience was only paper exercise few years ago

So I think it has to do with doing power on stall in TMG at 1000ft? but that give zero room for loss of control?

I know rare gliding sites with no aerotow that were used to teach wing stall/drop on top of 1000ft glider winch in winter (most instructors will pause on this until the soaring season), but K21/K13 gliders are completely different kettle of fish to an HK36? Also on top of airfield is not the same as middle of the countryside?

Last Edited by Ibra at 13 Feb 17:49
ESSEX, United Kingdom

If he sat right, how would it be know that he was instructing/pic?

CB IR Instruction
LOWG, LOWW

What strikes me quite often with these accidents and the people we loose is that they are exactly not who we expect: Low experience – low proficiency, but most are highly experienced pilots.

Additionally to that, some hold qualifications and reputations beyond any doubt whatsoever. Whether this kind of rep is actually warranted is one of the bits I have wondered in recent times.

Some of the examples I recall from recent events were the crew of the JU52 in Switzerland. Ju Air was known to only let former airline and military pilots fly who knew the geography like their own back pocket and had more time on the JU than most living pilots. Another definitly was the chief pilot of Pilatus Aircraft who perished with his family near his homebase (the TB10 thread). The list goes on, but the really unbelievable accidents seem very often to involve this kind of people.

I have no answer to the question as to what makes these people be so suspectible to accidents. But it bothers me deeply. At the same time, I have come away from asking myself if that means if these highly competent folks crash, then how can I dare to fly… my answer by now is that on MY airplane and following our procedures I am actually more proficient on that particular plane than they are plus I probably am much more cautios in the sense that I would not fly a lot of stuff which for them was perfectly normal to do. I think the TB10 crash shows that: You get one of Switzerlands top shot pilots come to grief in an airplane he hardly knew and in an environment he hardly ever operated.

LSZH, Switzerland

What strikes me quite often with these accidents

It’s our own bias. GA/pvt flying is made up of all kinds of people pursuing a hobby, interest etc. Some happen to work as pilots besides flying privately.

Take eg 100 ga accidents a year. Maybe every 10th pilot is a pro/mil pilot. And maybe 3 out of the 100 accidents are in the pro/mil category.

That doesn’t necessarily mean it has anything to do with the accident.

Just like being a pure private vfr pilot doesn‘t automatically imply less proficient flying skills. Might even be the opposite and vice versa. It’s case by case.

The (sub optimal) temptation to „operate“ a plane more „losely“ in private vs. at work is something I keep in mind.

Last Edited by Snoopy at 13 Feb 18:32
CB IR Instruction
LOWG, LOWW

Ibra wrote:

Prop left featherd (or mags OFF) after a shutdown/restart exercise (happens with two people)

According to the report the prop was not feathered but “at or near” normal flight pitch at the impact.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Thanks for pointing that bit, I was thinking they were soaring engine off and attempted restart at low height, HK36 prop is something that get missed easily even on A4 club checklist, that could have delayed restart/recovery?

Probably this was a plain loss of control at low altitude (spacial disorientation and stall/dive)?

The problem with TMGs or Self-Launch is that when you get low say less than 1500ft you have to call yourself loudly as either glider pilot (field, airbraks, stick, glide and no go-around) or power pilot (power, flaps, prop, stick and climb/go-around), the way how controls are laid down does not allow you to change your mind in the heat of the moment…

Last Edited by Ibra at 13 Feb 19:30
ESSEX, United Kingdom

Meaningless accidents.

These things keep happening. I think a part of it is the lack of a CVR+FDR. So, most GA crashes are speculation piled on speculation, educated guesses, etc. We just don’t know if that TMG had a control failure; the report makes it clear it could have been.

I think currency on type is the most beneficial thing. A lot of pilots, especially in the airport bar / forums, say you should fly lots of different types – like some sort of chest beating exercise. The result is that you are not much good on all of them. And a lot of 20000hr pilots have 19000 of them in a 747.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Yes & No

Inexperienced pilots are more insecure and cautious. Plenty of very experienced pilots who fly privately crash. „The experienced pilot…“ we all know from countless news articles (pun).

CB IR Instruction
LOWG, LOWW
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top