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Wingsuit flying

Here

is a nice video - one of many. Here

is a series of good quality videos.

How much of a speed margin do they have?

They fly close to the ground for the thrill so presumably they must have a fair margin above Vs so if it starts to go wrong, they can climb up a bit and pull the chute?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Not so much fun if you crash. Watch this:



EGTK Oxford

Wingsuit flying in the Alps — a danger for GA?

Youtube has a large collection of wingsuit videos. Many of these take place in areas of the Alps which also see quite a lot of GA traffic (such as Mont Blanc), some of which close to the terrain, where wingsuiters primarily operate.

While a midair accident between a wingsuit flyer and a GA aircraft would seem like quite a freak accident, I’m still worried that wingsuit flyers represent a non-negligible risk for GA traffic (and gliders or paragliders while hill-soaring) in the mountains: Wingsuiters …

  • are not required to undergo any training
  • don’t use a radio (at least while in the air — not sure if they monitor mountain frequency before launch)
  • don’t keep a good lookout and situational awareness during flight
  • have very limited maneuverability
  • often spot a relatively reckless (or at least cavalier) attitude to safety (see accident statistics and 2016 number of fatalities)

What do you think? Are wingsuiters a midair waiting to happen? What can GA pilots do to avoid becoming an accidental target (other than avoiding the most common areas)? As much as we hate regulations in general, should there be limitations for wingsuiters?

Last Edited by Zorg at 03 Mar 22:57
LFHN, LSGP, LFHM

By wingsuit flying I take it you mean jumping off mountains and skimming over treetops, through holes in rocks and unfortunately sometimes into suspension bridge cables – rather than simply parachuting from aircraft but with a better l/d?

The wingsuit videos I’ve watched are generally far closer to terrain than I would dare to fly, particularly in mountains. I’m sure there is some risk to powered pilots, but I would be surprised if it is large. Wingsuiters are only in the air for a few minutes before they have to find a way to the top of the mountain again which will also greatly decrease the risk of conflict. Someone in a hang-glider might stay in the air for much longer, and venture much further from the mountainside – though they might be easier to see. Collisions between hang-gliders and powered aircraft are not common.

How many popular wingsuiting sites are there? Rather than banning somebody else from their hobby, perhaps the most popular sites should be marked on our charts.

I fly in the alps very often and I think this risk is absolutely negligible. Not only are they close to terrain, they are also most of the time lower than I fly. Basically, they fly close enough above ground that cables and obstacles are a similar, but greater risk, than the wingsuit. After all a cable is there the entire day, while the wingsuit is only there for thirty seconds. So even if there is some risk, my exposure is low and therefore the risk is acceptable to me. In my opinion, they mostly risk themselves, wich is okay.

Another approach to look at it are mid-air collisions between aircraft. I keep a good lookout and to me the risk is acceptable. The possibility of hitting a wingsuit is even lower than hitting another aircraft.

Well, how many of them are there? and how long do they live? The activity is also very concentrated in specific areas, and usually close to the ground, but not always. The risk of a mid air is negligible.

Seriously, why bother with such things? The accident statistics for light GA is rather clear. More than 90% of fatal accidents are loss of control in flight, controlled flight into terrain or unintended flight into IMC. Loss of control in flight is alone more than 50% I would also believe there are orders of magnitude more paragliders in the air than wingsuits, and they also fly at high altitudes all over the place. Collision with paraglider and aircraft is not in any statistics, so it must be minuscule.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Zorg wrote:

What do you think?

As others said before: If you fly as close to the ground/mountain as the wingsuit flyers, then you are a much greater danger for yourself than they are. It is different with wingsuit flyers who jump out of aircraft. Normally, parachutists drop vertically from their plane and open their chute at low altitude where one should not be flying anyway. Don’t fly under paradropping planes and you won’t hit a parachutist. With wingsuits it is different. They don’t drop vertically, but “fly” down at an angle of maybe 45 degrees and not in a straight line either. They have the right of way over powered aircraft just as gliders would, but are almost invisible. I guess this kind of wingsuit flyer poses a much greater threat to other aircraft than those who jump down mountain sides. Luckily there are very few of them.

EDDS - Stuttgart

I believe most wingsuiters will learn to fly from an aircraft prior to BASE jumping. On the other hand, they still need to land by parachute, so hopefully won’t stray too far from the drop zone. See and avoid works poorly for regular aircraft, so I see little reason to fear a wingsuiter I can’t see at all more than an aircraft that I can hardly see.

Most of them are rather a danger to themselves

These might be the same things airline / safety people wonder about us. So I say let thrm have fun :)

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