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A friend send me that :


LFOU, France

Malibuflyer wrote:

We have no shared “European spirit” in the broader population

I do not think that is true. IME there is much more European spirit in the broader population – especially among younger folks who grew up without these silly borders – than among politicians.

I think I will live to see a United Stated of Europe being formed and for my part I am more than happy to welcome the remains of the United Kingdom.

mh
Aufwind GmbH
EKPB, Germany

A friend send me that

Great video – I am familiar with the concepts

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

mh wrote:

I think I will live to see a United Stated of Europe being formed and for my part I am more than happy to welcome the remains of the United Kingdom.

I’ll drink to that!

tmo
EPKP - Kraków, Poland

mh wrote:

I do not think that is true. IME there is much more European spirit in the broader population – especially among younger folks who grew up without these silly borders – than among politicians.

I think I will live to see a United Stated of Europe being formed and for my part I am more than happy to welcome the remains of the United Kingdom.

Hear hear! For the “Erasmus generation” these sentiments certainly hold true, and I hope you are right!

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

mh wrote:

I do not think that is true. IME there is much more European spirit in the broader population – especially among younger folks who grew up without these silly borders – than among politicians.

MedEwok wrote:

Hear hear! For the “Erasmus generation” these sentiments certainly hold true, and I hope you are right!

I wish I could share your optimism. However, I can’t!

Yes, obviously the “Erasmus generation” doesn’t understand borders. (at least if they are more “left” in a European sense of the word and not "right which is also a significant part of the younger generation). They also do not understand that they have to pay for anything in life…

The challenge of United States of Europe are not movement of persons that travel for leisure or that can at pay for their living by themselves (ok, their parents do if we are talking about Erasmus students). The challenge come when it comes to standard of living, social security systems, taxes, etc.
Tell the Irish (22% tax and social security contributions in % of BIP) that they have to more than double their payments to get to a unified EU level (44% in Belgium, Denmark)…
Tell the Germans that they will only receive the subsistence limit when they lose their job, because we can’t pay more for all unemployed Spanish…
Tell the Swedish that we love their social security system but as we do not stand the slightest chance to roll it out across Romania, Greece or Portugal…

The US of A work (kind of OKish) like any other US as they are not a welfare state in a European sense but restrict themselves to an open market and some fundamental regulatory policy. That is not compatible with what many people in Europe expect from a state.

Germany

What’s BIP? Google doesn’t seem to help. 22% would look very attractive to most of my clients!

But that might be correct, as our income tax is very progressive (rates increase significantly as your income increases) with the 1/3 lowest earners paying no income tax at all (but they do pay Universal Social Charge and PRSI -social system) and their employers pay a significant charge too.

But as to your general point, I totally agree. Everyone thinks it’s a great idea until they are told that they have to change to accommodate everyone else!

It’s just like the situation with a united Ireland which is being discussed here. Lots of people totally in favour of it in the press because they think it would be a great idea. But when they are told that in order to properly merge the unionist community in friendship, that we’d have to make some simple compromises such as choosing a new national anthem and a new flag which was inclusive of both traditions, and ensure that there was some special status in our parliament to ensure the unionist tradition had a voice they are shocked! And that’s before the topic moves to real items such as the cost of it.

For Europe and for a United Ireland "Everyone thinks it’s a great idea until they are told that they have to change to accommodate everyone else! "

EIWT Weston, Ireland

But when they are told that in order to properly merge the unionist community in friendship, that we’d have to make some simple compromises such as choosing a new national anthem

According to the then Irish PM a year or so ago, unification is not possible unless around €10BN/year magically appears from somewhere; currently this is coming from the rest of the UK (read: the productive parts of England). And I reckon N Ireland would be cheap at 10x the price when you start looking at the cost of propping up Scotland, which is also coming from the rest of the UK (read: the productive parts of England)

The money (for either) would have to come from Brussels. I don’t know what their “wealth transfer” appetite is these days but probably not huge, especially post brexit.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

dublinpilot wrote:

It’s just like the situation with a united Ireland which is being discussed here. Lots of people totally in favour of it in the press because they think it would be a great idea. But when they are told that in order to properly merge the unionist community in friendship, that we’d have to make some simple compromises such as choosing a new national anthem and a new flag which was inclusive of both traditions, and ensure that there was some special status in our parliament to ensure the unionist tradition had a voice they are shocked! And that’s before the topic moves to real items such as the cost of it.

I had hoped, perhaps without real justification, that a thumping great Conservative majority in parliament might lead to the Conservatives telling the DUP to get stuffed and subsequently a move to return Northern Ireland to the Irish.

That is what I would do – if I were PM with a good majority – say that in two years it’s yours, and that if the unionists don’t like it they have two years to get themselves over the water.

Of course Dublin does not really want it because it would have to pay for it. But because of the history it cannot (yet) say that. So the smart move on the part of the UK might be to get rid of it while Dublin still feels obliged to take it.

EGLM & EGTN

skydriller wrote:

As a book of its time, Red Storm Rising is a good read and deals with this.

Jup. Probably the most realistic European Theater of war novel.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland
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