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What ended the use of piston twins for charter (AOC) work?

Bathman wrote:

… or was it a case that the piston twins became just too expensive and too unreliable to serve the market.

This is what I think. Too much ground time, too many technical problems which required external companies to be hired for getting the passengers back home.
The AVGAS problem in many parts of Europe didn’t help either. And many of the costs involved (especially crew, office, licensing costs from the authorities, airway, handling, database subscription, hangar, …) are almost the same for a C421, a KingAir or a CJ. Only that the KingAir is 50% faster than the C421 and the CJ is 150% faster which evens out the cost per distance – which is what the clients have to pay. 90% of executive travel customers will rather pay 50% extra to be taken from Stuttgart to London in a little bit more than an hour in a 5 year old jet than in 2 1/2 hours in a 35 year old piston Cessna. And a Da42 is nothing but a toy aircraft. Myself I would refuse to fly in one as a passenger.

Last Edited by what_next at 11 Aug 18:53
EDDS - Stuttgart

Did the market ever dissapear or was it a case that the piston twins became just too expensive and too unreliable to serve the market.

Most schools used to have a twin so could use that for AOC work. Of course the ATO approval to teach for the MEP rating gravy train put a stop to that. They 12 year engine TBO for instructing didn’t help either. Finally the revalidation requirements haven’t helped either.

There are several DA42s on an AOC out of Gamston, don’t know how much is ad hoc passenger charter, I suspect not much, but they seem quite busy on various contracts.

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

What I don’t get, as I wrote above, is why the market should have disappeared say 10 years ago. Cheap airlines have been around for a lot longer than 10 years. I used to fly to Frankfurt in 1985 for £50, in a 737. So people would have disliked propellers even 20-30 years ago.

I reckon a lot of flying schools operated one plane on an AOC so they could get duty free avgas across the board

Regarding public transport in SETs, we have a thread here. I reckon it will arrive “slowly”

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Isnt there still a “problem” with their use in some countries in Europe for air taxi?

Bathman wrote:

What impact will SET have in this market sector?

Around here this “market sector” has been basically nonexistent since 10 years (no commercially operated piston twins left within 100NM from where I am based, apart from some involved in aerial work – hail prevention). Myself I quit flying commercially on MEPs 10 years ago also, the last years it was mainly express cargo where no spoilt passengers would complain about aircraft size and “those propellers”. And because of the now severely aged fleet (the youngest C421, C404 or Navajos – below that size they are pretty useless for commercial operations anyway – are over 30 years old and on average over 40!) and all the shortcomings of this aircraft category I swore to myself that I will never fly commercially on one of those ever again.

So the SET would have to re-invent the low-end air taxi/charter segment starting from almost zero. In my part of the world I give it exactly zero chance of achieving that. Even twin turboprops are now confined to niche markets (short field, 24 hour operations which is not possible with jets here due to noise regulations) and have a hard time competing against light jets which are cheaper for every flight which exceeds about one hour flying time. And even light jets are not really popular among passengers. Ours complain all the time about “small size” and “uncomfortable cabin” in the CitationJets and the Bravos/Encore I fly. The charter market where a little profit can be made from happy customers which will keep returning starts with the Citation Excel and similar sized competitors. Below that it will be rather corporate or privately owned planes I guess.
But maybe that’s all different in other parts of Europe or The World.

EDDS - Stuttgart

What impact will SET have in this market sector?

It is an interesting question. A client of mine runs an AOC operation and this year has never been so busy – it is truly booming. It is all European, nothing long haul, but demand from private and corporate. They did run a twin piston for a short while but it was neither economic or popular. The speeds and weather topping capability of the rest of the fleet have too many attractions and, with sufficient use, the capital deployed and the depreciation becomes less significant, especially as capital is so cheap. The lack of Avgas at so many European destinations is also a factor.

Going back to the early 90’s I worked at two schools that used to offer pleasure flights (A to A AOC). The owners of both schools claimed that it was the regulation that came in at the end of the decade that killed it off.

what_next wrote:

Running such a company was not much fun in the first place (much less than we had expected when we started the business) but those new regulations would have taken the little remaining fun away.

Hmm. I would imagine it was more like this :



The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway
13 Posts
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