I had a really nasty situation yesterday at Avignon.
I filed for 0900Z.
I arrived at the airport 0730Z. Paid up, and a man in the handling office checked my passport and license. I hung around the empty hall for a while, to waste time.
Then went outside to get the plane ready. Around 0840Z I called up ATC from the plane and asked what is the earliest I can start up. They said I can start up now and “report ready for taxi”. I reported ready around 0845, and arrived at the holding point around 0850Z.
ATC then called me up saying two “men” are approaching the plane. I looked around and saw two armed policemen. They walked up to the wingtip and started making gestures. Presumably they wanted to see my passport. I called up ATC and said I need to shut down. ATC said I cannot because it is dangerous to shut down at a holding point, and that for a passport check I must taxi back to the apron. I said I cannot turn back because the taxiway is too narrow for a 180 and if I taxi forward they will think I am trying to escape and will shoot me. ATC did not “get” this so I had to say it quite forcefully. So I shut down anyway (no way I was going to do anything else with 2 armed policemen there, ATC or no ATC) and opened the door. The policemen could not speak English and were pointing at their watches. I said an aircraft can start to move before the filed EOBT; not sure if any of it was understood so I just gave them the passport to check and they had a quick look at it and walked off. I restarted and a few mins later departed.
My view on this is that they had a long opportunity to check me out (and the handler, who knew my destination, could have informed them I was present, as usually happens – maybe the handler did inform them) but did not bother to do it right away and then realised they left it too late. Another possibility is the (very common) show of force / show of authority thing, whereby the police like to make a point to all, including the airport management, they they are really in charge of everything, so they make a point of doing it at the last moment.
2 days earlier, when I arrived, I got two policemen at the plane after shutdown. They asked me if I can speak French. I said No and they looked at me like I had arrived from Mars. But there was no problem. They just looked at the passport, took it away, and brought it back 10 mins later while I was refuelling.
I have been told since that when there is a required police check, e.g. France → UK, you cannot depart before EOBT, and that they were within their rights to do this.
Some observations I would make:
and after startup, the police can’t examine you, which makes a mockery of the filed EOBT being a mandatory “must wait till then” requirementI have never had this situation before, and only at one place (Zaragoza, c. 2008) did I get a police inspection at the plane rather than in the building.
Peter wrote:
I have been told since that when there is a required police check, e.g. France → UK, you cannot depart before EOBT, and that they were within their rights to do this.
I’ve been advised that that must be the case (although in a nice airport norwest of paris where things are always easy, and the definition of “departure time” wasn’t specified), so I am “always late”
I always set my flight plan to the earliest time I am likely going to depart and then kick it down the road with delays. So easy with Telegram messenger.
The idea that French policemen would shoot at you is absurd.
In Germany you also have to make yourself available to police until EOBT, unless you are cleared before (e.g. by passing an airside police/customs check). I have repeatedly waited on the apron before flying to Switzerland and would never dare to depart earlier (you only need customs when leaving Germany under specific circumstances).
EOBT is off chocks and while your engine may be running, there is no problem for police to come to your aircraft and signal to you that you should turn off the engine (or they simply shoot you).
This boils down to the old question whether, on a flight requiring customs or immigration checks, the pilot is required to actively go to and find the customs office and make himself known, or whether that is not the case. Nothing in any airlaw document or AIP says anyhing about that. A couple of of years ago there was a case at my home airport, EDHL, where police (normally much more friendly in Germany than customs people) got after someone for not having presented himself before flying out of Schengen).
An unpleasant situation. In France, I always make sure I sneak into the customs office (if there is one) before going out to the aircraft. A good point on EOBT though in cases where they can’t easily be found anywhere.
In Germany most smaller airfields with customs have customs officers drive by at random for checks. Maybe one out of 10 cases. If they drive up the slope 10 minutes before EOBT and see my airplane flying over their head, I would be in for a lot of trouble.
I have been accused by German customs of a customs infraction and they have started by telling me I am going to pay the VAT of the estimated value of my aircraft (for which they used planecheck.com and others with a surprisingly accurate estimate) plus a fine. In the end they closed the case because I did nothing wrong but I will never leave any ambiguity with them anymore. EOBT it is unless I was cleared before.
I’ve had a similar situation in Germany, Speyer, ready 10 mins before EOBT indicated and was advised that I could not leave the parking position before EOBT as that is how long the customs agents have the right to examine me. I also had to stay on arrival until the ETA filed plus 15 minutes, albeit I was allowed to wait outside. They also had not received my customs application, even though I had a hardcopy, which saved the day.
Same thing after arrival in Mengen, were told to stay on board with doors cosed until the planned arrival time plus 15 minutes as customs had not arrived. I advised I needed to open the door due to the heat and they said the risk was mine as customs said to keep the doors closed. They did arrive shortly after that and upon seeing the door open for 15 cm insisted on a full check of the airplane, people and bags which took about 1 hour and was very unpleasant.
I don’t like airports where you have to define days before when exactly you will land due to PPR for that reason. Better take an airport which has regular customs, only there are very few of them. France really seems to take a turn for the worse though.
You are not supposed to leave before EOBT when customs/immigration check is required. Conversely, if customs/immigration is required for arrival, you should not leave the airplane before your ETA.
Yes, but one has to walk to the plane / do a couple of checks / startup a couple min before EOBT to meet EOBT, no?
The idea that French policemen would shoot at you is absurd.
In this day and age I do not agree.
The idea that French policemen would shoot at you is absurd.
That statement would require a lot of inside knowledge of operational matters, and even then it assumes they don’t have (false) “intelligence” suggesting I am a terrorist, in which case even a Brit policeman (would have to be from the firearms carrying squad, from which they weed out the most obvious problem types) would shoot, and the ones in question here would not even think about it.
In Germany most smaller airfields with customs have customs officers drive by at random for checks. Maybe one out of 10 cases
Same in France, and especially in France they usually don’t turn up, and usually it is obvious they are not going to. For example at Carcassonne they were there but not interested. In this case they left it till the last moment, and that is the real issue here. Why did they do that?
