The reason I wrote that gps signals are sometimes unreliable in certain parts of Europe are twofold. Firstly my own experiences of losing gps signals eg South West of Paris, east of Niort to name but 2 areas. Secondly, posts on this forum some time ago.
The reason I mention D.Trump is that he has threatened to pull out of NATO and made other threats to European and NATO partners regarding defense.
This week president Macron made a speech in which he said that Europe can no longer rely on the USA for its defence.
Who knows what DT will do next in his America first campaign.
Yes Galileo was started long before DT, for different reasons, but the world has changed and Galileo has different reasons for being important.
The UK has done well out the Galileo project. Mrs May obviously thinks what Galileo offered the UK, important enough to commit nearly £100 million towards filling the gap that she feels will appear after Brexit.
I agree with @1521 . I think there is confusion here between UK business access to projects related to building/maintaining the Galileo system and user access to Galileo. These are two completely different things. Certainly, UK businesses would be upset about not being able to bid on EU projects of any sort, including Galileo.
But I can’t imagine why there would be any attempt to restrict use of Galileo to a specific local geography, even if it could be done which I doubt. Sure, the satellites would have a given regional coverage, but trying to lock out use from the UK but not Ireland would be a bit like trying to lock out Switzerland without impacting France, Germany, Austria, or Italy. Simply not possible. Losing signals must be a different issue, probably related to local interference on the ground. Of course, UK authorities could lock out reception through jamming on the ground, but that is really the reverse and inconceivable.
I don’t follow what is meant by “UK won’t get the keys to decrypt the signal” How would that work and what is meant by “the UK” in this context? Or is it meant in the context of GBAS where a ground signal is needed? A GPS device either can or cannot decode the signal, and any given device is not tied to the UK or any other national border.
Navstar has an encrypted signal for military use and AFAIK Galileo has the same (no idea if it is currently running).
AIUI, Brussels is threatening to withold these decryption keys from the UK. I don’t see the problem here, unless the USA becomes an enemy of the UK in military terms, which is IMHO off the scale of improbability.
And yes there is the bidding block on EU projects, but that is a lot wider. Obviously, those projects were funded with some UK money, so that money can now be redeployed more directly within the UK. But is there a real case for a UK GPS system?
There was a proposal in the earlier days of Galileo to make the encrypted Galileo signal mandatory for instrument approaches, and sell the decryption keys. The website contained some obviously cock and bull figures like creating “100,000 jobs”. It was in the same class as turning Greece into Switzerland by lending it a load of Euros 
gallois wrote:
Two reasons for Galileo. One is that there are parts of Europe where GPS signals cannot be relied upon. The swcond is Donald Trump.
This is where I really detest forums – there are always people who want to use it to try to further petty political points, attacking Trump. In any case, why do you believe our position in Europe is so much better, with unelected bureaucrats who can’t be sacked, telling us how to live our lives, pursuing courses of action which nearly started WW3? Are they more reliable? I think not. So before casting stones → greenhouse….. etc,
Secondly, the US built up the GPS network at considerable cost. If the Americans then decide they need to switch off GPS for whatever reason, being a freeloader, we can’t seriously complain, can we? It would be like saying to your neighbour – please boost your WiFi signal because I can’t receive it in one particular room in my house. Then complaining when he turns it off.
In any case, the main reason for Galileo is not to be independent of GPS or GLONASS, but to screw over the electorate. With positioning data accurate to a cm or so, they – our ‘masters’ can determine which street we are driving on and can charge accordingly. The running costs of Galileo will not be cheap and the motorist will be required to fund these whilst at the same time funding the additional payments required as fuel duty declines with the advent of electrical vehicles.
History shows this when reviewing the German TollCollect system for heavy goods vehicles. Telekom Systems (IIRC) spent so much on developing the system, the planned charge per ton had to be trebled just to offset the running costs! Say what you want for a vignette, but at least the overheads are minimal. I fear not only for the future of individual mobility once Galileo starts charging for every road you travel down but all of a sudden the citizens are glass, to be tracked as and when ‘those that be’ deem necessary.. Big Brother? No thanks. I’d rather we stayed clear of such intrusive systems.
Peter wrote:
So I still cannot see the point of Galileo, other thanto show Europe can do it
to put some money into European technology
which is fair enough, but is not the argument normally put forward.
Well, road charging springs to mind. Secondly, tracking the citizens. We are well on the way to becoming a repressive state in Europe, especially with media support where ordinary people are labelled xenophobic and far right wing because they protest about locals being murdered by immigrants – who should have been deported. This will assist the government to track their ‘enemies’ and ensure none meet without being seen and recorded….
gallois wrote:
The reason I mention D.Trump is that he has threatened to pull out of NATO and made other threats to European and NATO partners regarding defense.
Ok, but how about this. USA pays a lot of money on defence. Considerably more than Germany (i.e) does, based on GDP. Why are the US doing that? To protect it’s partners from a supposedly aggressive Russia. So what does Germany do? Make deals with Russia to spend more money with Russia, strengthening it….. You couldn’t make it up – Germany demanding to be protected from Russia but then making deals with that country which then weaken the US economy. Too damned right Trump said – look, pay your way…..
Would Galileo be a requirement for road pricing?
I don’t think so. There is no difference in accuracy between Navstar and Galileo. Satnav systems, and the various boxes which track your driving for lower insurance premiums, already work just fine on Navstar, and so can road pricing.
Could Galileo be made into a hard requirement for road pricing? Probably yes, in that you can build a GPS receiver which picks up only Galileo (despite obviously containing a chip which does Navstar as well). But who would bother to do that? It could be formulated as a legal requirement, but it would be rather perverse because you are excluding the obvious backup.
Steve6443, I think before you start accusing people others of trying “to further petty political points” perhaps you should re read your own posts, and mine for that matter. I made no mention whether Donald Trump is right or wrong I simply stated what has been reported. You might say this is all fake news, I wouldn’t possibly comment, not on a thread for aviators. I and I believe many others, even in his own administration, perhaps even DT himself don’t know what he is going to do next. If he thinks switching off gps or charging other countries to use it is the thing to do to get his way, he will do it. Or is this fake news too.
gallois wrote:
Steve6443, I think before you start accusing people others of trying “to further petty political points” perhaps you should re read your own posts, and mine for that matter. I made no mention whether Donald Trump is right or wrong I simply stated what has been reported. You might say this is all fake news, I wouldn’t possibly comment, not on a thread for aviators. I and I believe many others, even in his own administration, perhaps even DT himself don’t know what he is going to do next. If he thinks switching off gps or charging other countries to use it is the thing to do to get his way, he will do it. Or is this fake news too.
You stated very clearly that you believe Trump to be unreliable. You then furthered this by saying he threatened NATO partners. The inference is clear, that you believe his actions to be wrong. Please note that he was (rightfully) complaining about partners who have not only consistently refused to bear their agreed share of the costs of NATO, but at the same time indulging in actions which are strengthening the ‘enemy’ but are also seriously detrimental to the main funder of NATO.
Put back into context – he has only done what he believed to be in his country’s best interests and yes, the task of a country’s leader is to act in the best interests of that nation. Here in Europe it appears that only the interests of the intellectual elite are considered to be of value, the people can go to hell in a handcart, as far as Junckers, Merkel, Macron and co are concerned.
With respect DT and his actions – that is for him to decide, based on the best interests in the US. That you then believe him to be ‘unreliable’ for putting America first, is bemusing. It’s been too long since a President really put the US interests first. I think the last time was when Reagan stopped US military from sourcing defence equipment from abroad when adequate alternatives were available from American companies (in those days, BAe were trying to sell Rapier to the US, Reagan made the announcement and although Rapier was the better system, they went with HAWK).
We have a Depository for off topic / political posts – can the pro/anti Trump argument go there please.
Excuse me Steve6443, but would you like to show me where I said that Donald Trump was unreliable. It seems to me that some people these days read what they want to read, hear what they want to hear so that they can have an excuse to go on a rant.
What I am interested in, in this thread are the pros and cons of Galileo, why we need it or not and what it means for the UK if they are no longer part of the Galileo project due to a no deal Brexit ie March2019.I really do not understand how your points about whether Ronald Regan bought the Hawk instead of the Rapier has anything to do with European countries developing Galileo. The only thing that we can agree on is that Donald Trump will do what he believes to be in the best interests of the US. Hence my previous posts.
