Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Danger areas in the Channel, and Eurocontrol routings through them

My understanding is that an FPL (whether I, V or somewhere between) filed in UK airspace outside controlled airspace has no value whatsoever. It probably won’t even come to Solent’s attention. It certainly doesn’t imply a clearance, or, as I understand it, even a place higher in the waiting list, through any kind of notified airspace.

But you can call Plymouth Mil and you may well get a crossing.

EGKB Biggin Hill

The FP has no value but as I posted further back I am surprised IFPS validates a route through D038 etc when (as I checked today on the radio) it is active.

It is ok for “us locals”, and I just flew EGKA KATHY EGJA which is nothing like what I filed, but imagine a foreign visitor. He will just bust the area and then we get another Youtube video taking the p1ss out of the UK All because the UK cannot be bothered to feed IFPS with the information.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I agree that we do everything differently and much of it wrong, but I see nothing significantly changing while the whole system is funded commercially, as opposed to by general taxation.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Soon we will be offered 10€/£ FPL that actually check the actual status of restricted areas …. And 20€ for a more direct route, and 500€ for a priority landing.
Of course you will be able to pay inflight and approach controllers will vector planes according to their kind contributions. Customer is king as we say (but rarely do) in France

LFOU, France

Just make sure you have few quids left for fuel ;)

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

An FPL validated is the last of my worries, not being able to know if they are active while in the air is more problematic, especially from other ATS around the area,

I wonder why plymouth can’t have an automated recording on their frequency if they are not using that airspace and their radio is not manned?

Given the kind of training around the area, it is better to assume a no-go

Last Edited by Ibra at 11 Dec 19:30
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

The main issue with this is that the pilot prepares to fly Route X and then gets a departure clearance which goes off in a very different direction, and he has no idea of the route which has been “cooked up” for him.

I see nothing significantly changing while the whole system is funded commercially, as opposed to by general taxation.

I agree that this is unlikely to change (because, in Europe, airspace and the IFR services are there for airlines, not for GA) but it doesn’t seem hard to fix it. The mechanism for a country to notify IFPS of which bits are closed when has been in place since for ever. The Eurocontrol programmers have provided for all this stuff. It is just that some countries (not just the UK) have consciously decided to not supply Eurocontrol with all the info. Some countries operate State funded services for FP processing and they are keeping some of the processes in-house for job-protection reasons; I am sure the UK is not doing it for that reason because the UK shut its FBUs about 10 years ago.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

There is one simple rule. If you file DCT, you are on your own. IFPS reliably validates a flight planned on ATS routes, and on some DCTs (those mentioned in the route availability document [RAD]), and on DCTs that are along published ATS routes.

IFPS is not a service to pilots, is is intended to “police” the ATC routes and the RAD, to manage capacity in ATC sectors, and to distribute flight plans automatically to those IFR units that need them. OK, to be fair, the last point (automatic FPL distribution) means that we can in practice file 15 minutes before EBOT even though the rules still say three hours…

Biggin Hill

Ibra wrote:

I wonder why plymouth can’t have an automated recording on their frequency if they are not using that airspace and their radio is not manned?

Exactly. This is what happens with French restricted areas. When no-one is there, they have a recording on frequency telling you its not active. Simples.

Yes, I don’t think it costs that much money or effort to set-up an ATIS style recording

In mainland DA/MATZ, you can check DA/MATZ activity or even request ATZ crossings from LARS units as they get some airspace handover on weekends,

Over water, London Info do tell you DA is active when there is nothing from Notam/Plymouth or by looking at the sea or sometimes they are just clueless as you on activity status with a famous suggestion “fly north to St-Cath point, remain ocas… mode charlie

Of course, unless you read/hear/see it is active, you are clear to go in for a direct but I always have that second thought

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top