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Differences in aviation culture around Europe

ch.ess wrote:

Isn’t it more a situation where cultural idiosyncrasies simply also manifest themselves in aviation ? Examples and not only in aviation…

I think that’s right and the fundamental issue for GA in Europe is cultures established at a time when 25 or 50 miles per day was a normal rate of travel. Those cultures will naturally try to kill anything that threatens their norms, and traveling 1000 miles a day in a light aircraft is exactly that.

Re the UK, reading the CAA magazine linked in another thread reminds me that nobody does hobby journalism and the associate literature as well as British. This then leads me to remember reading the delightfully written manuals for a Velocette motorcycle, describing so accurately and clearly the starting method for that motorcycle… which due to the ‘traditional’ engineering, never updated, took a ridiculously arcane and complex procedure to accomplish (I should also mention that the founder of Velocette and his family were German but the bikes themselves were very much British engineered)

I reckon there are a couple of differences apparent when you e.g. deal with airfields or airports. While in some countries they are happy to have you, others might look at your visit as a disruption of their daily routine (-beautysleep-) or look at your request as a welcome distraction from boredom and will make the most of it.

While I have mostly had good experiences with airports and their staff, there are some which would put Basil Fawlty to shame when it comes to how they regard visiting airplanes. “You want to do WHAT on our airport? LAND here? Seriously? Ah, yes, we are an airport of course, ok then, lessee: We need your name, first name, registration, number of passengers, maximum take off weight, names of all passengers with passport number (for the guys downstairs in immigration), faxed photocopies of all your paperwork, pedigree of your dog (you have no dog? Shame, maybe a cat? also not, hhmm, so what to put in that field, goldfish? AAh, thank you sir, Wanda was the name, was it:…” and will go on for half an hour on long distance calls before telling you that they are closed at the time you want to arrive, but maybe you want to try Saturday in 3 weeks? Of course then you have to call again to get your data across, as they do not store them.

Then there are those who don’t want you at all. See the Greeece thread or any other PPR discussions.

But I’d say they are (still) the exception. Most places will be happy to have customers and treat (fleece) them accordingly with a smile and an open palm.

LSZH, Switzerland

jvdo wrote:

Last week a friend of mine flew non stop from Prague to the west of Belgium at 145kt in a VL3

mmm.. with a Vno starting at 113knots!

Ukraine

JasonC wrote:

I would read the applying for a CAS transit via email thread for a start. That is absurd.

That has to be one of the craziest (UK ATC initiatives) so far. I will never be using it, even though I travel in CAS regularly.
Imagine a longish flight through several CAS. Firing off emails left right and centre prior to getting airborne.

EGLK

ploucandco wrote:

mmm.. with a Vno starting at 113knots!

The manufacturers web site implies that Vno (“max speed in gusts”) is 127 knots. According to Wikipedia, Vne is 165 knots.

Anyway both Vno and Vne are indicated speeds.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

Sure; but I gave 4 reasons in that list and only one of them is brexit related. I reckon the 1st one is the biggest one i.e. most mainland pilots get their view of the UK from sources which take the p1ss out of the UK without going there much (or at all) like this piece of satire where the guy in the video pretends to be really thick by not understanding “pass your message”, the meaning of which is blindingly obvious to anybody who speaks any English.

Hi Peter, as a foreign based pilot who flies often and frequently with non english pilots to the UK, I can tell you that the comment ‘pass your message’ is often met with blank faces in the cockpit because they do not understand what is meant. Bearing in mind, these are people who speak english, are capable of conducting business in english. They understand the wording, they don’t understand the concept.

Pass your message – pass it to whom, is the usual response…..

which I then obviously correct….

it’s

to whom should I pass it….

Last Edited by Steve6443 at 13 Jun 15:49

Steve6443 wrote:

Pass your message – pass it to whom, is the usual response…..

In the rest of the world it is “Go ahead”

LFPT, LFPN

Aviathor wrote:

Pass your message – pass it to whom, is the usual response…..

In the rest of the world it is “Go ahead”


I was taught to expect “Pass your message” in Luxembourg, and our controllers use it.

Last Edited by lionel at 13 Jun 17:42
ELLX

ploucandco wrote:

mmm.. with a Vno starting at 113knots!

The Vno on the latest models is 127kt, but you are right the Vno is quite low on all ultralight planes.
However if you cruise on higher altitude in smooth air it shouldn’t be a problem.

Last Edited by jvdo at 13 Jun 18:07
EBMO, EBGB

Go Ahead is used in the UK too. London Control usually use it, but one won’t know that if one doesn’t fly to the UK Area FIS (London Info) use Pass Your Message but then they speak mostly to Brits, and probably mostly to PPL students

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Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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