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TB10 HB-EZW down near Lucerne

Peter wrote:

Would you lean a TB10 for a 1525ft airfield elevation departure?

I don’t think this is a departure density altitude issue because they flew 3nm. They may have hit the ground because they could not climb (2200ft up over 3nm is some going) but it isn’t a simple departure issue. Especially in VMC where you can see clearly whether you will or won’t make it over terrain ahead.

I was taught that when flying in the alps to keep at least 1000 feet per 10 knots of headwind between you and any ridges you want to cross and yesterday the wind was out of the north. As the aircraft was fitted with a flarm system, you can track the flight easily enough. The track from that flight shows them take off north bound, then climbing at 340 feet per minute with a speed slowly decaying from 81 knots down to 72knots – but the decay could be likely the impact of the wind, which was out of the north, apparently up to 20 knots. The last report was at 2930 feet altitude, 48 knots, climbing at 240 feet per minute. towards a ridge of around 2700 feet. Yes, he’s clear of the peak – just – but as the wind flows from the north over it, it could have pushed him into the ground, as did happen with Steve Fossett. Why didn’t the pilot stay further right of that ridge and gain altitude more altitude – perhaps the D(HX) airspace was active? Who knows.

Last Edited by Steve6443 at 06 Aug 12:43
EDL*, Germany

Nothing on FR24 for HB-EZW, for any of the usual reasons.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
LFHN - Bellegarde - Vouvray France

How can you see the flarm data? Is there a webpage for that?

Switzerland

Peter wrote:

Nothing on FR24 for HB-EZW, for any of the usual reasons.

The coverage in that area is notoriously bad, even though several airplanes could be seen down to 4500 ft .

It is strange however if the flight can be tracked via the Flarm site (which one btw?) that it was not on FR as well.

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 06 Aug 18:48
LSZH, Switzerland

It was tracked via PlaneFinder.net…. I have Flarm installed in our aircraft but often enough, Flight Radar doesn’t see us, PlaneFinder is more reliable but also not perfect for tracking…..

Last Edited by Steve6443 at 06 Aug 20:25
EDL*, Germany

Please read http://flarm.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/SAR_Text.pdf local copy

Excerpt from above:
Should an aircraft whose FLARM ID is known be reported missing, we are able to reconstruct its flight track by using the IGC file of several other FLARM
devices. The more aircraft whose FLARM IGC file can be accessed have been flying more or less in the same area and on the same day the better the reconstruction. From experience, this is most successful at important central glider competitions, during weekdays and in hilly topography (ridges, mountain chains) as this leads to similar flight tracks. By using this method live tracking is not possible. The reconstruction is feasible for all FLARM devices, i.e. also those which do not yet record the data themselves.

.

EDxx, Germany

Steve6443 wrote:

It was tracked via PlaneFinder.net….

Thanks, got it. They indeed went for the pass straight after take off. Not sure in which direction they took of though.

nobbi wrote:

Should an aircraft whose FLARM ID is known be reported missing, we are able to reconstruct its flight track by using the IGC file of several other FLARM
devices.

I recall how that was “born”. The Swiss SAR were searching for a glider and the club members called FLARM to read out the data and make it available to the SAR. SAR was surprised when they were called by Flarm but used the data to eventually locate the plane. Since then, involving Flarm is a going procedure here in case of a missing plane.

One other tidbit of information surfaced here: The ELT of both the TB10 and the JU were triggred and provided valid data. Actually, even though lots of eye withnesses called the authorities in both cases, the JU executives were informed of the ELT signal faster than the Police could get to them. So the 406 ELTs do work from time to time.

LSZH, Switzerland

Very sad day for Swiss aviation….

Shouldn’t we wait for the official accident report before jumping to that conclusion?

Glenswinton, SW Scotland, United Kingdom

Jacko wrote:

Shouldn’t we wait for the official accident report before jumping to that conclusion?

Well, we lost 24 people, amongst which the Chiefpilot of the PC24 Program as well as two very well known and liked JU /SWR/EDW/SAF pilots.
We lost an irreplaceable airplane.
It was the worst day since the Crossair Crashes in 2001.

I’d say that this does qualify as a sad day regardless of the outcome of the report.

LSZH, Switzerland
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