I went on a bimble round the South East today. Tuned into Lydd, I was listening to an aircraft that was on the ILS procedural service. He was cleared for the procedure and asked to report at the 14 DME. Nothing more was heard from him until Approach asks him if he has reached the 14 DME yet to which he goes "oops, sorry we forgot to report 14 DME and we are now established on the localiser is that ok" and giggles. As I am a humble IMCr pilot I have always thought you needed to be cleared onto the localiser, is this not the case? If you are cleared for the procedure, can you in fact fly the whole thing right down to minima with out speaking to ATC again? Had ATC not asked him where he was I wonder at what stage he would have woken up to speak to ATC. Further, if on a procedural service, will another person wishing to fly the ILS be put in the hold until the current one has landed?
On another note, it is truly cringe worthy listening to some of the carp that pilots spew out on the radio. I take my hat off to the ATC folk for having to listen to it day in and day out. Some pilots just hear what they want to hear (usually the sound of their own voices). I could tell a few more stories of “great” airmanship displayed today but I fear I have bored you all by now. Hahahaha.
They can send another aircraft outbound when another is established on the loc. If you are cleared to the procedure you can do it but in the UK they also seem to tell you you can descend with the procedure. Which as far as I see it is part of the procedure.
If being vectored you need to be cleared to intercept. Today in Bordeaux they flew me right through the inbound course of the rnav.
As I am a humble IMCr pilot I have always thought you needed to be cleared onto the localiser, is this not the case?
The standard procedure internationally is that if you are "cleared for the approach" then you are cleared to fly the whole procedure, all the way to "1mm" above the runway, but you still need to be "cleared to land" before you can touch the runway.
If they ask you to report at some points, e.g. "localiser established" that is for their benefit (management of other traffic probably, or a handover to Tower once you are established) but your clearance is still all the way to 1mm above the runway.
The stuff about "descending with the procedure" is ambiguous because once cleared for the procedure you are entitled to descend with it as published. I don't know why the UK uses this hand-holding terminology. You can't be part cleared, same as you can't be part pregnant.
In this case the pilot seemingly forgot to report, but often that happens because somebody else on the radio is reading out the whole War and Peace. In that case you continue to fly the approach as published and make a position report when you are able to.
If at the very end you can't get a word in saying "XXXXX visual" then you have to go around, which is very irritating and obviously reduces safety, but it does happen.
The only time you can land without a landing clearance is in the case of executing the ICAO Lost Comms Procedure but that is another can of worms 
I am sure we could have a thread on that... particularly with reference to non Eurocontrol "UK-style fake IFR" ops in Class G 
On another note, it is truly cringe worthy listening to some of the carp that pilots spew out on the radio
Low currency of pilots who do ~10hrs/year, are probably the main reasons. The only way to get good on the radio is by doing it. I guess bad training comes into it too but most of the UK pilot community has been flying for many years.
If being vectored you need to be cleared to intercept
You need to be "cleared for the approach" in order to intercept the localiser, but sometimes ATC forget, so reminding them is not a bad idea. It is very rare to be vectored through a localiser deliberately.
Obviously, I saw your smiley, but still: Why do you refer to IFR ops in class G as "fake-style IFR"? To me, there is nothing fake about it; it's just how ICAO intended it. In Germany, we would be happy to have this (it is supposed come in 2014 , but I wouln't bet on it).
Do you say so just to distinguish it from IFR in CAS, or do you think that "proper" IFR is only in CAS, on airways, talking to "Control", listening to music over the headset? ;-)
Thanks for the clarification. Would explain that while ATC was most surprised by the announcement that he was localiser established, not another word was said. Good for me to know as I had it in my head that while I have been cleared for the procedure that if ATC asked you to report somewhere in the procedure, in this case the 14 DME, then that was like a "comma" in the procedure and I needed the next onward instruction. Thank you.
I should add, and I hope UK old-timers will correct me if my memory is bad, but the UK did not operate the "cleared for the approach" phrase till a few years ago. Instead they used a series of "quasi clearances" and a typical RV ILS might be
Descend XXX
Turn left XXX
Descend XXX
Turn left XXX, report localiser established
When you reported localiser established you got
Descend with the glideslope, report visual (or report at 4 DME etc)
I recall reading some CAA flyer on this, saying it was done that way because the phrase "cleared for the approach" entitles the pilot to descend to the IAP platform (though that itself has been debated here) and UK ATC did not like pilots doing DIY descents.
God knows what one was supposed to do if one was localiser established and then somebody started on their War and Peace... I suppose one was supposed to go around at the platform altitude.
To me, there is nothing fake about it
I like it too; I think it's great. But one has to be honest and accept that in the UK Class G the whole concept of VFR and IFR is totally mixed up and is meaningless. Filing "V" or "I" on a flight plan (which itself is pointless except for the S&R angle) is equally meaningless because you can change flight rules non-radio at any time.
I think this is great because if I was teaching somebody to fly I would treat VMC and IMC as one mixed bag which the pilot needs to be capable of equally - because clouds don't care where you are. The whole VFR v. IFR division is a historical artefact from the days when IMC flight was hard and IMC navigation was fairly meaningless, and is being maintained because the PPL has to remain packaged as an entry level product which just about everybody can manage.
It is less great when you are flying the DME arc at Lydd and you see (visually, or on TCAS) somebody flying straight through the place on their way to/from Le Touquet as exactly your level. That's the tradeoff...
You need to be "cleared for the approach" in order to intercept the localiser, but sometimes ATC forget, so reminding them is not a bad idea. It is very rare to be vectored through a localiser deliberately.
Of course. But it is important to know that if you can't get a word in (as today), you have to fly through it.
