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How bad can an instructor be? (a badly planned trip via the Balkans, and border crossing issues in Europe)

Last I checked, 2-3 years ago, Geneva was about €200, plus parking. Got to watch the parking costs – search here for Sion parking which makes the landing fee insignificant

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote

Geneva

Someone I know used to fly in to Geneva once or twice a year until a couple of years ago. The grass runway was in quite poor condition but the tarmac is available unless they’re busy

EGHO-LFQF-KCLW, United Kingdom

Am I to assume those people are regularly using their microlight aircraft to cross international borders in Europe, which would be relevant to this discussion? Would (for example, using my proposed utilization from Germany) 75% of flights in those aircraft cross international borders? If so would they regularly fly within a large number of European countries? Is that what you are teaching them to do?

Well, I’m teaching them to fly according to ICAO airspace “regulations” on an international airport. They can fly anywhere in the world, but where they actually fly is up to them of course.

In practice most stick to Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Anything further requires additional days just to get there and back again. Luggage is severely limited with 450 kg MTOW and two on board. There is also language and more “aero-cultural” barriers. It’s easy to fly in Scandinavia, with any sort of airplane, and we have more than enough space. I would guess though, with 600 kg and more speed with the 915, longer trips will become more doable.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Ibra wrote:

Good to know, I guess no training around just based aircrafts from private owners and bizjets?

Basle to my knowledge does not have any such restriction. They are a French airport anyway. As far as I am aware you can fly there without slot or anything. Also pricing is not outrageous, at least I never heard anything negative.

Geneva has slots but is also not beyond the pale if you don´t take handling, which you are not required to in small planes. I have not tried to fly there recently but hear that it is very well feasible.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Good to know, I guess no training around just based aircrafts from private owners and bizjets?

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Geneva and Basle do have GA. Basle more than Geneva but both are accessible.. Geneva has slots, Basle does not.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Peter wrote:

You can get one ski pass for zermatt and cervinia ….

Will be interested to know which side is the cheapest as well

I remember with my wife we had a bit of fun (and stress) getting a cheap car rental and returning it back at EuroAirpot which serves 3 countries, we had 3 back and forth between St-Louis, Basel and German side,

I will be curious to know how things operationally work (two ATC? one authority?) for an aircraft operating on airports shared between countries?

Examples,
- Geneva is 50/50,
- EuroAirport is 33/33/33, had a funny car rental return experience on this one
- Gibraltar seems 100/0, but Spanish car road cross its runway
None of these is GA accessible tough,

FYI, for those who are curious Coolangatta Airport in Oz has two time zones for each runway threshold, luckily flight times are in UTC

Last Edited by Ibra at 20 Nov 20:51
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

But practically, do you still need a Swiss custom declaration for a flight France to Italy while overflying Switzerland? say going to EuroGA fly-in to Venice

For overflight? No. And you never did.

It is not discriminatory but it was a let down after the vote to adopt Schengen, as many people did not realize at the time what Schengen stood for. The argument was that they should treat the flight plan as customs request and then the police should decide if they come or not, as opposed to todays practice where you have to fill in an online form most of the time before the flight. But you are right, today if you cross the border by car you usually have a checkpoint. Whether it is occupied or not, is a different story, but you can be checked anywhere around it.

We can live with this mostly. Where it gets difficult is for extra-Schengen flights. Most airfields only have customs clearance but no immigration facilities, which means if you want to fly Extra Schengen then you need to use one of the larger airports which are full AoE’s.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

The border crossing:

ESME, ESMS

Dimme wrote:

There was no border control between Germany and Switzerland. Anyone could walk across.

If you’d ever like to do some people smuggling between CH and EU, I’d recommend a cross border Swiss Postbus for the same reason, plus they can carry more contraband

Places like Umbrail Pass (which may still have a section of dirt road) have had unmanned border checkpoints when I’ve been through, then when leaving CH you might go through a big fancy checkpoint. It seems inconsistent.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 20 Nov 15:01
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