My understanding is that you can just fly with Mode C in Germany and don’t bother about S. I believe it is happening all the time, with aircraft that are not D-reg. Same with the DME, there I know for sure that a large percentage of GA aircraft flying IFR in German airspace are not DME equipped although it is a legal airspace requirement. Nobody seems to bother.
I did hear though that the Dutch are handing out fines to pilot violating equipment rules, solely based on declarations in the flight plan.
My understanding is that you can just fly with Mode C in Germany and don’t bother about S. I believe it is happening all the time, with aircraft that are not D-reg. Same with the DME, there I know for sure that a large percentage of GA aircraft flying IFR in German airspace are not DME equipped although it is a legal airspace requirement. Nobody seems to bother.
There is a difference in that ATC is very unlikely to find out that you don’t have a DME (operationally I mean, of course they can look at the flight plan), while they could find out that you don’t have mode S as they get the radar data…
Yes, exactly.
Don’t want to fly to Germany with the feeling of maybe / probably getting a clearance, especially if the weather requires IFR.
Just tested the autorouter to generate an IFR flight to Germany (EDDH) with Mode C equipment. Do not know if the equipment is validated at that time, but the validation succeeded.
Magnus wrote:
Do not know if the equipment is validated at that time, but the validation succeeded.
I don’t think equipment is considered for routing.
I don’t think equipment is considered for routing.
Actually it is. Transponder, 8.33kHz radios and PBN have an effect on the route. There are airspace rules for those.
achimha wrote:
Actually it is. Transponder, 8.33kHz radios and PBN have an effect on the route. There are airspace rules for those.
Hmm, that’s good news. But are there no requirements for 8.33kHz radio at a FIR level? Is it just specified TMAs/CTRs that require it?
martin-esmi wrote:
But are there no requirements for 8.33kHz radio at a FIR level? Is it just specified TMAs/CTRs that require it?
IFPS wise it’s sectors but I remember that they turned off the hard requirement some time ago but I believe it’s back on. However, there are national laws that require Mode S and 8.33kHz. Germany does both for IFR.
I’d rather file Mode S and 8.33kHz and then not carry it and get an exemption than not filing the capability.
I have heard a few times something like “Just get the flight plan approved – that is all that matters.”.
Last year I had a problem when filing a plan to EHGG in an aircraft without 8.33 kHz. In May 2014 everything was OK but the trip was cancelled due to weather. It was rescheduled to June but then the validation required 8.33 kHz (Y) in the flight plan. Read a lot on the subject and talked to Flight Planning Center in Sweden and came to the conclusion that it was quite serious to specify incorrect equipment. So, I never went…
What if you specify all equipment very correctly and the flight plan is approved. Are you good to go then? I just filed an IFR flight plan (test) in Germany without Mode S, and it was approved. So without knowing more, I get an incorrect conformation that my equipment is sufficient.
On a similar note. There are still a few IFR approved aircraft not having RNAV capabilities. However, hypothetically, it is possible to file a flight plan with such aircraft to 5-letter fixes, that don’t lie on the current VOR/DME radial on the route, meaning that it would be quite impractical to find those fixes without a GNS. Whilst in the air it is also possible to comply with ATC when giving directs to such waypoints – and everybody seems to be happy. But GNS is not on the equipment list…
Also with (formally) only B-RNAV equipment such as KNS-80 that needs a VOR/DME nearby and you get cleared to a fix say 200 nm away. The correct answer may be “unable”, but practically most pilots can comply these days.
2 years ago, I flew from LKLT to EBST. I was at 6500ft crossing CZ-GE border and contacting Munich info, I was requested to descend below 5000ft. Munich info didn’t see my mode S transponder (GTX328) and only got mode C information. I had well a GND issue on the radio then that created some interferences in my panel. That was certainly the cause of the issue.
But you better have a mode S in Germany in controlled airspace!
What if you specify all equipment very correctly and the flight plan is approved. Are you good to go then?
Time and again. I get puzzled by these questions.
Are you really asking that, Magnus? The pilot is always responsible and it is his job to make sure that he complies with all regulations affecting his flight. I know this is sometimes a tough job with all the complex regulations we have, but trying to shift some of that responsibility to other parties (in this case: Eurocontrol?) does not make sense.
You have to make sure your flight is in compliance with the rules and nobody else. Pilots are normally taught this principle in the PPL course
Re BRNAV: in many parts of central Europe, this has been standard for IFR for 15 years now. Legally speaking, no way around BRNAV here. Of course, in practice you can do it all with an ancient GPS90 (as long as you can get database updates for it) and nobody in ATC will ever notice. But the same as the above principle applies: just because nobody complains, doesn’t make it any “more” legal of course.
