Depending of weight ( density, wind etc.) you can reduce the roll distance for take off and be more successful by using the SOFT FIELD method for take off.
1. Yoke back , adjust pitch under 15 degrees
2. jump into the flare
3. climb out at Vx
Thomas
WhiskeyPapa wrote:
My desire is to be able to land at grass fields in reasonable condition down to about 400-500 meters.
With grass runways I’d be tempted to say that you might as well stay with your Morane, as it is most probably one of exactly those planes built for the purpose.
WhiskeyPapa wrote:
As an example, in Sicily flying from Ragusa-Guibiliana (the hotel, 750 meters asphalt, manageable for a TB-20)
This airfield should be managable with most airplanes up to a Seneca even, certainly most Mooneys can do it, even though one came to grief there a few years back.
WhiskeyPapa wrote:550 meter soil Agrigento (AG05) to check out the ruins and then to Marina DI Modica (RG02) 650 meters grass to go swimming.
Depending on weight, most planes can do this. For instance, a PA-28-235 comes to mind, they have quite a performance too. Also a C182 should be able to do this, but neither of them at MTOW. Even my M20C can do all of this, provided the runway surface is not too bad, so can most PA28-180 (Hershey Bar Wing, not the Archer Wing!). And from my performance figures earlier, nominally also the TB20 can.
WhiskeyPapa wrote:
The options in a STOL plane are real and they mesh well with flying in Europe.
if you really want to go STOL, as I said, your Morane has spoilt you probably for ease of operation into such fields. The Morane was built for this, it has 180 ample horsepower to do this and is probably one of the best short field performers around. The others which come to mind are tailwheel Maules and, at the high end of the stretch, a PC6 Turbo Porter. Also the AN2 is arguably bigger and can do all of those airfields, but you need a copilot and best own an oil well.
Any sort of airplane is a compromise. If you need something which does everything, then you might end up very expensive indeed. Other than that, I’d recommend looking at the performance handbooks at airplanes you like and then make up your mind how much you want to make concessions on STOL vs other capability. If you e.g. forego less than 600 m grass, you have quite a choice, if you however need 300m grass all year round capability, things get very tight.
WhiskeyPapa wrote:
I agree with 172driver that a 182 is an option. They certainly are capable, especially when light.
They certainly are! If you REALLY want to go short/soft field and want a traveling airplane, then you should look at the C182 Petersen / Katmai conversions. I’ve once flown such an a/c across Europe and while perhaps not the fastest (around 130ish kts cruise), you can get these things in and out of pretty much any space. Amazing stuff!
@172driver
Ahhhh… a Katmai, now that would be a ride!!!!
@WhiskeyPapa wrote
My desire is to be able to land at grass fields in reasonable condition down to about 400-500 meters.
Then as a rule of thumb perhaps look for a machine with a landing and take off roll of less than 200 m at your expected “working” combination of density altitude and all-up weight.
With such a machine you exchange a little cruising speed for increased safety and utility, fewer landing and handling fees and less time spent in cars and taxis. And when you want to land on an upland one-way with a 12G25 tailwind, you won’t sweat so much.
10G25 tailwind 400 meters grass…, hmmn…. I suspect “elitism” or snobbery in GA has little to do with money! 
Well, you might think so if you haven’t tried it, but dealing with sloping and one-way airstrips is just a matter of practice, some school physics and having a somewhat suitable aeroplane – all of which is infinitely easier (and cheaper!) than instrument flying, for example. One could argue that it’s also less useful, although there are probably more parts of the Earth’s surface with slope than without.
If you’re even remotely interested in flying to short or unusual airstrips, please do contact Martin Skacel, president of your local Österreichische Gebirgspiloten Vereinigung – Martin flies an old Piper cub all over Europe, and a friendlier bloke you’ll hardly find.
And in case you wondered, a bit of tailwind on landing is our friend on a sloping runway, because it helps the take-off (when accidents tend to be more serious).
Jacko wrote:
please do contact Martin Skacel
Now that is a great guy! He used to come to our fly ins almost regularly.
Wonderful guy. Do they still do the fly in at the quarry near Klagenfurt?
Let’s start about some experiences and compare:
TB 20, engine has 120h after OH, RWY 26 concrete, wind 210/15, 8 C, QNH 1010
Pilot and Co 160kg together, 50 Gal on board.
short field takeoff , roll distance = 170m
Thomas
