How much democracy in the cockpit

USFlyer wrote:

In fact, there is even the notion of a “sterile cockpit” where no one is allowed to say anything or touch anything or distract the PIC at all!

Unless it’s to do with the operation…

My mustard:
As has been stated a cockpit is no democracy as no votes are taken.
1) If two pilots one board you have twice the resources.
2) One must explicitly be the PIC to avoid responsibility sharing problems/ increased risk taking (e.g.: I, Pilot A can press on in this shit weather because I assume Pilot B would say something if he wants to turn around. Pilot B thinks the same of Pilot A – you get the point.)
3) There are very few things that have to be done in a hurry in an airplane. Take it easy, communicate and use the second pilot as a resource for decision making input you wouldn’t have if you were alone – then balance in his input into your decision – and then before you decide think to yourself that you are the responsible PIC.
4) Take the other pilots concern seriously. Ignore the other pilot if he reassures you to do something more risky. Do the opposite.
5) Use the other pilot to share/delegate workload (ATC, navigation, operating controls) so you can focus on managing the flight by keeping the big picture.
6) If you are made aware of a mistake by the other pilot and vice versa all that needs to be said is “thank you”.
7) A flight is not a competition, it has a common (not only geographical) goal.

Cheers!

chrisparker wrote:

Unless it’s to do with the operation…

Only Part 121 is required by regulation to operate a sterile cockpit; “refrain from non-essential activities during critical phases of flight,” and in those situations there is a SIC (Second In Command). But a sterile cockpit is something I use and explain to passengers before taxiing as ‘silence.’ It’s a kinder way to explain to people why there is a need to stop talking from time to time (as when ATC calls the tail number).

In the end, this kind of thing has to do with Cockpit Ressource Management.

Clearly, in any flight operation, no matter if SEP or not, there has to be a designated PIC who takes the final decision. But that does not mean that the remainder of the crew, or even pax if applicable, should be ingored if they have something of worth to say.

If flying with a 2nd pilot, I always will do a briefing and define who does what in this flight. That role will be adhered to during the flight by both of us.

If I am PIC, I will further brief about what I want to hear immediately and what can wait. E.g. I will want to hear immediately anything which has to do with the safety of the flight: e.g. traffic, any form of fire, any form of noteworthy engine indication, any concern he may have regarding the flight path. He should alert me if I read back something wrong to ATC, if I am about to taxi the wrong way, or line up on a wrong runway. During the trip, I will keep the 2nd pilot fully in the loop, so that both of us are always in the picture. Control transfers will be done in an orderly manner. A closed loop will be enforced for all actions we do together.

I sometimes fly with my former FI or with other pilots from my group and we always have fun doing a good CRM. All of us have been exposed to this kind of CRM with our FI´s who are all airline pilots.

Passengers are a different thing. I do want to hear important stuff like “there is an airplane over there”, “hey what is that smoke from the light up here?” “The door is not closed”, e.t.c. If there is a situation I need quiet, I will say so and brief them beforehand that if I do tell them to belt up, that it is because I need my capacity for the moment. Never had any problem there.

Sterile Cockpit, yes, take off until out of the control zone (VFR) and after the initial contact with the destination and before entering their CTR.

Good CRM needs training and method but it is a whole lot of fun if it works out. Actually I do like flying with a 2nd pilot. Shared joy is double joy.

USFlyer wrote:

In fact, there is even the notion of a “sterile cockpit” where no one is allowed to say anything or touch anything or distract the PIC at all!

A sterile cockpit is a wonderful thing, and something that all pilots should seek to introduce into their flying. It’s something that I insist on during the departure and arrival phases when I’m PIC, irrespective of whether that’s with another pilot or a non-pilot passenger. But it’s more important to insist on when flying with another pilot.

But to be clear it does not mean that “no one is allowed to say anything” as you put it.

In fact quite the opposite is true. It’s designed so that when someone has to say something, it can be communicated quickly and clearly so that the other pilot can easily understand the information and evaluate it, without unnecessary distractions. A sterile cockpit is all about enabling effective and efficient communication! Not banning communication!

I’m really surprised that a pilot doesn’t understand that.

dublinpilot wrote:

But to be clear it does not mean that “no one is allowed to say anything” as you put it.

Let me clarify. For example, when ATC is talking to me I do not want anyone else talking… Rather than bark out ‘please be quiet’ and then ask ATC to repeat I hold up my hand as a visual queue for everyone to be quiet. I brief that a ‘sterile cockpit’ is everyone being quiet immediately when I hold up my hand. Passengers don’t need to be briefed on all the situationx where that is a requirement, but they usually get the concept of a sterile cockpit and the need for talking to cease under certain circumstances.

“I’m really surprised that a pilot doesn’t understand that…” quote from dublinpilot < shocked that a “pilot” allows chatter unconstrained in the cockpit.

“Sterile cockpit” means that only conversations directly relevant to the conduct of the flight is allowed. It does not mean that no one is allowed to talk.

I agree. I normally tell passengers there is to be no chitchat until we are in the air and away from the airport – because it’s so easy to knock somebody’s wingtip and everybody loves insurance jobs

How to deal with passengers getting “assertive” in flight – hard to say. I have flown with a few people here on EuroGA so I better not say anything But I have never had a problem with any of those. I did once fly with a pilot on IR practice who could not stop talking. I didn’t crash into anything but the flight, with 2 or 3 approaches, was wasted. On another occassion, more than 10 years ago, I flew with an FAA DPE (not any well known one; this one was an Iranian from Florida, IIRC) who interfered so aggressively I stopped the test and flew back. He wasn’t unhappy because he got 2x $500, in cash of course.

There are very few situations with what we do that require a split second decision whether or not to continue with the action in question. In the vast majority of cases we have time on our hands. The OP mentioned the tail wind and I guess a possible go around. So you set up to land in what you believe is the correct direction and the “co” points out you are 180 degrees out. You are convinced you are not, but whats wrong with a go around? So you go around and have a fresh look and a discussion. Doubtless you may both take something from the experience and almost certainly one of you a lot more than the other. If you were the pilot and corect then you have another go around to your credit which you may not have done for some time. I can think of so many circumstances where it does no harm to say ok, lets have another look together at this one and see if we can agree. I can think of almost no occasions it does any harm, other than perhaps a few minutes out of your schedule if you had one.

The possible exception is weather. There are times in the process of arriving where there must be some form of executive decision viz via the “co” perhaps indicating he doesnt like the look of a particular approach, perhaps because of the proximity of some cells, but the more experienced pilots feels it is safe to continue with the approach. It is subjective to a degree and short of a decision to divert, having another look is probably not going to make a lot of difference.

Reading the comments about a sterile cockpit of course it does depend on the role of the “passenger” and their experience. If I am flying with another pilot I always say if you see something you dont like or are unhappy with – tell me. I would far rather be told on final I am unhappy with your approach, I dont think it is stable, because it costs me nothing to say OK, lets go around and have another look at it, or are you ok with continuing a bit further and if you are still unhappy we will go around.

Now I appreciate there are times when other pilots might be unreasonably uncomfortable. For example the first time you see a landing in say an Extra you may well think this is going to end in disaster – so there is an element of education before, perhaps pointing out that you will find the approach very different from what you are accustom to so please dont be concerned, and ultimately you may still need to make an executive decision that having talked about it we are going to see through the second approach because we do need to put the aircraft back on the ground and I am totally happy it is within my comfort zone. Fortunately I have never been in that position where someone has been that concerned ;-)