As a CRI i did just that on a BFR with one guy, but without announcing it, but I didn’t make a new friend that day. Ok, i pulled out the key :-)! but we were 5000 feet above a long runway, still the guy got very nervous. I underestimated that effect, and i told him i’m sorry later, but i had done so many engine out landings by that time that i was not aware how scary this is for some other pilots.
Let me get this right… You pulled out the key?
You are an “instructor”?
If you do it on a hot summer day, with 20 degrees in 5000 feet shock cooling is not a problem.
This calls for a new thread on overturning mankind’s knowledge of physics. Nothing less.
But i am not so convinced about the shock cooling theory anyway..
In your own plane, fine.
As a CRI i did just that on a BFR with one guy, but without announcing it, but I didn’t make a new friend that day. Ok, i pulled out the key
That leaves you wide open to prosecution!
137 Endangering safety of an aircraft
A person must not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft, or any person in an aircraft.
138 Endangering safety of any person or property
A person must not recklessly or negligently cause or permit an aircraft to endanger any person or property.
You can’t make it totally unexpected because of shock cooling. I am happy to do it if the CHT is below about 300F to start with, and you never cruise like that.
Of course most people dont properly lean, or are able to monitor individual cylinder temps. However if the mixture has been leaned and the other pilot reasonably knows what he is doing richening the mixture, and monitoring the throttle and CHT is straight forward and while it might detract a little from a realistic scenario, in fact not that much. A fail shortly after take off is also pretty realistic albeit you need to have a little more faith in your co. ;-).
IMHO, a fairly reasonable practice for getting into some field down below is to fly tight glide approaches whenever possible. Very few people do that, and a lot of the time you can’t anyway (because of B52 traffic in the circuit)…
Yes, but I think mentally you are already rather set up for what needs to be done. You know where the wind is and you know what the profile looks like so I am not sure how realistic it is. I can only add that we use to do this a lot and it is surprising the first few times how badly most pilots do, even those who have practised FLs for themselves.
Wow, that seemed to be very shocking :-) You know what? You put the key back in and turn it to both and the engine is running. As i said, that was 5000 feet directly above a long runway.
I wouldn’t do it again, it’s maybe not the most clever thing to do, but the Warrior is really such a great glider and i had so much experience in it, it was no big deal.
You put the key back in and turn it to both and the engine is running
Unless the switch breaks, etc, etc.
It’s incredibly bad risk management.
Also, turning off the ignition puts a load of unburnt mixture into the exhaust manifold (Lyco/Conti context) so if you simply “put the key back in and turn it to both” you have a very good chance of blowing up the exhaust system. Before turning the ignition back on, one needs to close the throttle, for a few seconds, so the exhaust is purged. This is the same procedure as for a high altitude mag check. It is also the reason why one does the total mag cut test at some max RPM like 1000 (POH dependent).
But even that procedure never involves removing the key from the ignition. What if the key was dropped on the floor, and cannot be found? Then you have a real forced landing.
A friend had a simulated EFATO where the “instructor” closed the mixture. Luckily, the engine restarted… just in time.
None of what you describe happened, no explosions nothing…. simply because i (of course) pulled the mixture. You put the key back in, advance the mixer and the engine is running. Very undramatic.
Don’t make such a drama of it, i know what i’m doing :-) And if i couldn’t land on a runway from 5000 ft AGL i’d give up flying.
Flyer59 wrote:
I wouldn’t do it again,
I think that is the point.
When I did my multi rating the examiner would shut down an engine. On mine, neither of us could restart it, so that rather spoiled things and we landed on one engine (spoiled things in that it wasnt possible to complete the other elements). These days engines are rarely failed because the risk is considered to out weigh the gain. I suppose the same argument (and others) are why spins no longer form part of the PPL. So while 9 times out of ten the risk is correctly managed, its the last 10 percent that leads to tea no biscuits.
On my multi checkride the examiner shut one down aswell and let me land on one engine … but it’s not done anymore, i know.
Tumbleweed wrote:
That leaves you wide open to prosecution!137 Endangering safety of an aircraft
A person must not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft, or any person in an aircraft.
I agree with Flyer on this. Leaving one’s airplane in the hangar might well be safer than practising forced landings and other emergency drills, but if someone can’t glide an SEP to some sort of landing from 5,000 above a runway, they need more practice, not less.
Of course anyone can screw up a landing with or without power, but UK authorities are now obliged by the Human Rights Act to interpret Article 137 of the ANO in a manner which is consistent with an owner/pilot’s Article 2 and Article 1 Protocol 1 Convention rights.
Flyer59 wrote:
As a CRI i did just that on a BFR with one guy, but without announcing it, but I didn’t make a new friend that day. Ok, i pulled out the key :-)!
You did this in a single???
A “courageous” decision if I might say so….
