I am planning an IFR flight but on the day there is icing forecast above 5500 ft. The flight would be departing from France but trying it seems I can’t find a valid eurocontrol route at that altitude. Given 5000 is above MSA for the route and below icing level it would meet my requirements for the flight. I am a fairly new IR rated pilot, so would appreciate some advice. What is a pragmatic solution here? Would one just file the IFR flight plan at an altitude that validates (but puts you into icing conditions) and request lower from ATC before/after departure? Was thinking of adding my request for a lower cruise altitude into the remarks section. Would this be an acceptable practice?
Parthurnax wrote:
I am a fairly new IR rated pilot, so would appreciate some advice. What is a pragmatic solution here?
This where skill, knowledge and experience comes in. If all flights were scrubbed where there is some chance of ice enroute, then only few flights would ever take place.
Parthurnax wrote:
Would one just file the IFR flight plan at an altitude that validates (but puts you into icing conditions) and request lower from ATC before/after departure?
Not really. That may work in some instances, but in others, it might not. And then what?
It depends on the nature of the level restriction. In some cases, ATC is able to allow lower, whilst still remaining IFR in CAS. In other cases, a solution can be to just descend below controlled airspace – country dependent. But there may also be cases where there is no way to go lower (short of delcaring an emergency).
In France in particular, you CAN descend below CAS and fly OCAS IFR. You might then have to deal with more restricted airspace though.
Can you give DEP and DEST?
Very often, IMC or icing layers are not that thick, and the solution is to climb out of the ice. But depending on the aircraft and other factors, this may not always be possible either. Some ice during climb and particularly during descent is “normal” and ok, as long as the freezing level allows you to shed the ice well before landing.
The exact flight is from LFQA to LFAT (to clear customs) then on to EGKB. The flight is being planned for next Monday (so forecasts are still a bit in flux and could improve, but equally freezing altitude/icing could come lower). In the UK you can fly IFR OCAS without a valid eurocontrol flight plan, but my understanding is that I can’t do that in France. Some amount of low cloud is forecast as well for the day so uncertain whether a VFR flight would be possible (though this could change). But outside of the particularities of this specific flight, I’d be curious to know how one would deal with this kind of a problem generally.
boscomantico wrote:
In France in particular, you CAN descend below CAS and fly OCAS IFR. You might then have to deal with more restricted airspace though.
Can you give DEP and DEST?
So just request lower from ATC and continue OCAS?
Very unlikely you’ll get a Eurocontrol valid below 70 if not higher so if it’s icing you’re worried about then you may as well just fly IFR below the A. File an IFR to VFR and see how it goes.
Parthurnax wrote:
So just request lower from ATC and continue OCAS?
Why not file FL90 (or similar) and if you are approaching zero temperature and visible moisture just say something in the lines of “… request stop-climb altitude 5000ft due to icing”. Should work…
80 is the best you’ll get just looking at FF. nice route. But I suspect London Control will change that up quite a bit.
Prunay is a great little airfield especially if you like Champagne🤪.
London control would be delighted if you cancel IFR before you even get there.
arj1 wrote:
Why not file FL90 (or similar) and if you are approaching zero temperature and visible moisture just say something in the lines of “… request stop-climb altitude 5000ft due to icing”. Should work…
That sounds like it could be a workable plan.
Pig wrote:
80 is the best you’ll get just looking at FF. nice route. But I suspect London Control will change that up quite a bit.
Prunay is a great little airfield especially if you like Champagne🤪.
My wife does, and I need to keep her happy if I want her to fly with me haha…
At all costs !!!!
hear! hear!
Analog problem at different altitudes in real life example here
Note the clear existence of an out in case the plan did not work out
